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He is saying that every pig will choose to be clean after they die, and be saved in an after-death salvation process. Believing in 2nd chances after death removes the necessity of faith during this lifetime. It is "license to sin" steroids. Ironically the same people who promote this belief, also claim OSAS is dangerous because it's a license to sin. The glaring difference is that those people who are saved during this lifetime have the Holy Spirit with them to help and guide them while living a Christian life which removes the "license to sin" attitude. Those people who believed the universalist message about the 2nd chance see no reason to ever look to god during this lifetime, and go to their graves hoping the universalists were right.
There is a third option, which is those enlightened by the Holy Spirit, and who return to the mud, have no further chance. Those enlightened have life and who stay in the life have life. Those who never knew God and die get a resurrection to a chance as Paul spoke of.
1. Universal salvation no.
2. OSAS no.
Both give a License to sin and are wishful thinking.
3. Second chance, only for those who were never enlightened and died, and if then faithful go along with those who were always faithful, into Life.
There is a third option, which is those enlightened by the Holy Spirit, and who return to the mud, have no further chance. Those enlightened have life and who stay in the life have life. Those who never knew God and die get a resurrection to a chance as Paul spoke of.
1. Universal salvation no.
2. OSAS no.
Both give a License to sin and are wishful thinking.
3. Second chance, only for those who were never enlightened and died, and if then faithful go along with those who were always faithful, into Life.
Everyone sins after enlightenment, so option #3 would exclude the faithful. Or perhaps you are not talking about slips, but the return to a lifestyle which is willfully & habitually sinful with no repentance.
That is the thing with enlightenment . . . once it happens you cannot go back. Once a pig learns about the benefits and joy of being clean and enjoys the feeling . . . then wallowing in mud loses its appeal. He extracts himself from it because he recognizes it is just dirty and unclean . . . he can never go back to enjoying it. Have you ever either willfully or obliviously hurt someone you love irreparably? There is nothing that can be done to correct it and you feel intense remorse. Multiply that by a gazillion-fold and that is the kind of remorse the glare from God's pure love will have on our ignorance and obliviousness to the hurt inflicted by our own actions and attitudes during this life. Voluntary it will be . . . but unavoidable it will also be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
He is saying that every pig will choose to be clean after they die, and be saved in an after-death salvation process. Believing in 2nd chances after death removes the necessity of faith during this lifetime. It is "license to sin" steroids. Ironically the same people who promote this belief, also claim OSAS is dangerous because it's a license to sin. The glaring difference is that those people who are saved during this lifetime have the Holy Spirit with them to help and guide them while living a Christian life which removes the "license to sin" attitude. Those people who believed the universalist message about the 2nd chance see no reason to ever look to god during this lifetime, and go to their graves hoping the universalists were right.
As usual you have it wrong, Finn. We will reap what we sow . . . one way or the other. There is no "free lunch" or "license to sin." There just is NO Hell or punishment imposed by God . . . and certainly not eternal. We reap what WE sow and have not repented for through "love of God and each other."
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
There is a third option, which is those enlightened by the Holy Spirit, and who return to the mud, have no further chance. Those enlightened have life and who stay in the life have life. Those who never knew God and die get a resurrection to a chance as Paul spoke of.
1. Universal salvation no.
2. OSAS no.
Both give a License to sin and are wishful thinking.
3. Second chance, only for those who were never enlightened and died, and if then faithful go along with those who were always faithful, into Life.
God is no repsecter of persons . . . so the differences you highlight are irrelevant. We will all reap what we sow and have not repented for in "love of God and each other," period. Either we achieve sanctification for our imperfections under Christ's love for us all through repentance and "love of God and each other" . . . or we face the consequences of our own attitudes and actions.
I came here with that knowledge. I have learned nothing from you as of yet. You don't answer many questions.
Tell me what you mean by those words. I cannot assume what someone else means by them and apply it to your usage. Just answer the question.
I think you will find that it was the universalists that gave you that knowledge. Here we go again with you don't answer questions, when trying to get you to answer one is like getting blood out of a stone. It took weeks of persistence by me to get you stop being coy about what you believe you are saved from and the truth is, although you answered it you are still be coy and evasive about it, because although you believe you are saved from yourself, you also believe due to that you are saved from whatever you believe about hell and the lake of fire.
As usual you have it wrong, Finn. We will reap what we sow . . . one way or the other. There is no "free lunch" or "license to sin." There just is NO Hell or punishment imposed by God . . . and certainly not eternal. We reap what WE sow and have not repented for through "love of God and each other
No, I got it the first time. Of course it is a license to sin, because you can choose to go through your life sinning, and hating god, and after death you take the "regret" class, and be good to go.
You misunderstood the question. We have been told God will not make you stick your hand on the stove, so sticking your hand on the stove is voluntary. What happens if you decide to not stick your hand on the stove?
PS. I think Mystic is talking about afterlife. Are you talking about afterlife?
There is no before and afters. If you understand that God created all things good and do not misuse the good that he created you will not stick your hand on the stove, but as you know we all miss the miss mark( misuse the good hot stove) and we reap from that which was intended for our good.
As usual you have it wrong, Finn. We will reap what we sow . . . one way or the other. There is no "free lunch" or "license to sin." There just is NO Hell or punishment imposed by God . . . and certainly not eternal. We reap what WE sow and have not repented for through "love of God and each other."
God is no repsecter of persons . . . so the differences you highlight are irrelevant. We will all reap what we sow and have not repented for in "love of God and each other," period. Either we achieve sanctification for our imperfections under Christ's love for us all through repentance and "love of God and each other" . . . or we face the consequences of our own attitudes and actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
No, I got it the first time. Of course it is a license to sin, because you can choose to go through your life sinning, and hating god, and after death you take the "regret" class, and be good to go.
As you wish . . . but I think having to relive and experience everything you "dished out" (either knowingly or unknowingly) to everyone you hurt in life might be a VERY tedious "regret" class. As you become enlightened and truly feel the righteousness and power of pure agape love .. . and then contrast it with your life and attitudes while learning what it feels like to be on the receiving end . . . you might not be so dismissive of it as a consequence (weeping and gnashing of teeth).
Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-29-2014 at 12:39 PM..
No, I got it the first time. Of course it is a license to sin, because you can choose to go through your life sinning, and hating god, and after death you take the "regret" class, and be good to go.
OSAS from ET is a license to sin,but of cause those that do, were never saved in the first place.
As you wish . . . but I think having to relive and experience everything you "dished out" (either knowingly or unknowingly) to everyone you hurt in life might be a VERY tedious class. As you become enlightened and truly feel the righteousness and power of pure agape love .. . and then contrast it with your life and attitudes while learning what it feels like to be on the receiving end . . . you might not be so dismissive of it as a consequence (weeping and gnashing of teeth).
People are already living with it, so what you are talking about sounds like an ordinary day.
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