If a single act of homosexuality is abomination in God's eyes then same-sex marriage must be evil to the infinite power (prophecy, protestants)
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Yeah. Let's get back to bashing those abominable gays!
I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone here claims that gays are abominations by any means (I do appreciate the joke, but in all seriousness... :P)
Yes, there are Christians and non-Christians out there who despise homosexuals and think they are abhorrent and should be subject to fire and brimstone, but from what I've gathered so far in this thread, that isn't the case here. Quite a few seem to agree that homosexuality is a sin, but not everyone agrees on what the gay individual should do about that sin in regards to repentance.
I think other99's posts paint a good picture of what I believe is God's willfor homosexuals, but everyone seems to be ignoring him. Not all gay people wish to live as Mel White, and not all Christians are hate-banner toting members of the Westboro Baptist Church - as some posters in this thread seem determined to prove.
I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone here claims that gays are abominations by any means (I do appreciate the joke, but in all seriousness... :P)
Yes, there are Christians and non-Christians out there who despise homosexuals and think they are abhorrent and should be subject to fire and brimstone, but from what I've gathered so far in this thread, that isn't the case here. Quite a few seem to agree that homosexuality is a sin, but not everyone agrees on what the gay individual should do about that sin in regards to repentance.
I think other99's posts paint a good picture of what I believe is God's willfor homosexuals, but everyone seems to be ignoring him. Not all gay people wish to live as Mel White, and not all Christians are hate-banner toting members of the Westboro Baptist Church - as some posters in this thread seem determined to prove.
Very good points.
The main issue is that some people refuse to acknowledge any middle ground and run to the extremes in order to villify.
The bottom line is that Jesus accepted all people regardless of spiritual state, but never condoned sin or claimed that it didn't matter. As he told the religious leaders, you can't clean the outside of the cup before cleaning the inside. Accept and love people regardless of their outside and God will transform their insides.
Jesus taught us that we can love all men without condoning or accepting what God calls sinful.
The main issue is that some people refuse to acknowledge any middle ground and run to the extremes in order to villify.
The bottom line is that Jesus accepted all people regardless of spiritual state, but never condoned sin or claimed that it didn't matter. As he told the religious leaders, you can't clean the outside of the cup before cleaning the inside. Accept and love people regardless of their outside and God will transform their insides.
Jesus taught us that we can love all men without condoning or accepting what God calls sinful.
I'm all for civility - except, of course, if waylaid in a dark alley -- or perhaps uncivilly accosted on a message board.
So, let's just agree to disagree:
You think your God believes homosexuals who act on their attractions are committing a sin.
I do not. Nor does the God I believe in.
You point to your holy book to buttress your argument.
I point to a solar system, a galaxy, a universe of breathtaking complexity. And to us, a microscopic spinning speck of blue that contains a celebration of life in all its myriad, wondrous forms.
I see that as evidence that if there is a God, s/he/it appreciates the heck out of diversity.
The main issue is that some people refuse to acknowledge any middle ground and run to the extremes in order to villify.
The bottom line is that Jesus accepted all people regardless of spiritual state, but never condoned sin or claimed that it didn't matter. As he told the religious leaders, you can't clean the outside of the cup before cleaning the inside. Accept and love people regardless of their outside and God will transform their insides.
Jesus taught us that we can love all men without condoning or accepting what God calls sinful.
It does seem quite interesting that homosexuality, the hottest topic in 21st century America, wasn't mentioned specifically as a sin by Jesus.
On the other hand He does specifically put down religious people that knew their Bibles probably better than any of us on CD about the ugliness of using scripture I appropriately. Using it to duck responsibility toward parents, claiming that in it salvation is found (when it isn't), and demanding capital punishment for sins which Jesus demonstrated He came to forgive.
Just why, if homosexuality is so evil, didn't God inspire one gospel writer to have Jesus give us a sermon about it? I mean if it's really THAT big, why does it receive so little prominence anywhere in Scripture? There is more about adultery, about mistreating the poor or simply forgetting about them, more about lying, more about murder, more about deceipt --more about just every sin. Was God stupid in forgetting to have Jesus talk about something so important that fundamentalists return to the topic again and again while conveniently avoiding the topics that would find many of them guilty of?
I'll have to look it up, but I do believe even divorce is mentioned more frequently in the Bible, and it is certainly mentioned by Jesus and condemned. As an edit, I found that, depending on translation, there are 22 verses addressing divorce, six for homosexuality. My guess is that one or two of the fundamentalists on this thread are divorced and perhaps remarried--and maybe for other than biblical reasons.
Just think, if the Pharisees, who knew their OT, had just brought up how evil homosexuality was in THEIR eyes, Jesus could have agreed with them, we could all vote to oppress them, force them back into the closet, and assist them in feeling awful about themselves because they made a choice to be how they are and secretly they enjoy hearing "God hates f a g s" almost as much as we enjoy thinking it, if not saying it.
Tthttf may be a bigot, but he has all the others on this thread beat in one way. He is open and honest about it and reminds us all that the OT calls it a capital crime deserving death. The rest of you remain "in the closet."
The Westboro Baptist 'church' reject the teachings throughout the Bible. They paint a very distorted picture of God and the nature of the Lord Jesus Christ.God hates the sin of sodomy but Jesus wants ALL to be saved, including sinners which partake in this type of sexual sin.
Most 'gay' people hate Christianity and what it stands for, yet Jesus tells us to love our enemies and prayer and care for them(Matt 5:44). We are to love our neighbour as thyself not spew out hate filled messages and distort the character of God like the Westboro cult do.
A 'gay' person who truly wants to repent of this will be sanctified by the Lord God of the Bible(John 17:17).
I say this with love for the people caught up in this lifestyle.
The Westboro Baptist 'church' reject the teachings throughout the Bible. They paint a very distorted picture of God and the nature of the Lord Jesus Christ.God hates the sin of sodomy but Jesus wants ALL to be saved, including sinners which partake in this type of sexual sin.
Most 'gay' people hate Christianity and what it stands for, yet Jesus tells us to love our enemies and prayer and care for them(Matt 5:44). We are to love our neighbour as thyself not spew out hate filled messages and distort the character of God like the Westboro cult do.
A 'gay' person who truly wants to repent of this will be sanctified by the Lord God of the Bible(John 17:17).
I say this with love for the people caught up in this lifestyle.
Kind thoughts. At what point in your life did you CHOOSE the heterosexual lifestyle?
At this time of year, let me say that I think most evangelicals see Jesus as keeping a list of whose been naughty and whose been nice. I see Jesus as keeping a list of what people need and then finding Christians willing to step into that gap and provide the need.
Homosexuals don't "need" someone else telling them they are abominations. They need someone who will tell them Jesus loves them and wants them to be messengers of love and forgiveness, too. I hope to be one of some that will fill that need and leave it to the Holy Spirit to convict them in whatsoever way He chooses.
On the other hand Jesus sees the need of fundamentalists to hear what they sound like to homosexuals. God has called me to do that, too. I speak in a language familiar to fundamentalists. It is one of condemnation and self righteousness designed to engender anger and defensiveness in them as they do with their judgmental words about homosexuals.
In the future, Whenever one of them grows angry and despises me for my posts, they will remember that this is how homosexuals view their posts.
Merry Christmas!! Peace and Good Will to all men---no matter what their sexual orientation.
P.S. If it weren't for Christians, more homosexuals WOULD be Christian. As at least one has alluded to on this thread.
It does seem quite interesting that homosexuality, the hottest topic in 21st century America, wasn't mentioned specifically as a sin by Jesus.
On the other hand He does specifically put down religious people that knew their Bibles probably better than any of us on CD about the ugliness of using scripture I appropriately. Using it to duck responsibility toward parents, claiming that in it salvation is found (when it isn't), and demanding capital punishment for sins which Jesus demonstrated He came to forgive.
Argument from silence again? Jesus didn't speak out against bestiality so by your logic that means He totally approved of it. And Jesus did give a sermon about sexual immorality:
" in And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person "
Mark 7:20-23
The Bible makes it clear that homosexuality is a part of sexual immorality. Also Jesus defines marriage as being between a man and a woman. That's good enough for me.
(bonus point - Jesus totally destroys the shellfish argument in the previous verse. Try again, atheists.)
Kind thoughts. At what point in your life did you CHOOSE the heterosexual lifestyle?
I didnt choose, I was born that way. Its natural (Gen2:24).
Quote:
They need someone who will tell them Jesus loves them and wants them to be messengers of love and forgiveness, too.
But that would be lying to them which is an extremely wicked thing to do (2Cor 11:4). God doesnt love anybody outside of Jesus Christ(John 3:36). You must be born again(John 3:3).
God loves a repentant sinner who comes to Him with faith in His Son and His finished work at the cross(Rom 8:35).
If you're a true Christian then the best things to do would be to be honest with all the unsaved and tell them what the Bible actually teaches, not tickle their eyes. Thou shalt not bear false witness- you would do well to take heed of that!
Argument from silence again? Jesus didn't speak out against bestiality so by your logic that means He totally approved of it. And Jesus did give a sermon about sexual immorality:
" in And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person "
Mark 7:20-23
The Bible makes it clear that homosexuality is a part of sexual immorality. Also Jesus defines marriage as being between a man and a woman. That's good enough for me.
(bonus point - Jesus totally destroys the shellfish argument in the previous verse. Try again, atheists.)
Yes and there is a bible quote on that too on what he said: “From the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife.” (Mark 10:6-7).
God created the institution of marriage: “God created man in His image; in the Divine image he created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them, saying: ‘Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.’” (Gen. 1:28-29)
There is no where in the bible God says to 2 men or 2 women to be fertile and multiply or gay marriages are blessed by God.
I didnt choose, I was born that way. Its natural (Gen2:24).
But that would be lying to them which is an extremely wicked thing to do (2Cor 11:4). God doesnt love anybody outside of Jesus Christ(John 3:36). You must be born again(John 3:3).
God loves a repentant sinner who comes to Him with faith in His Son and His finished work at the cross(Rom 8:35).
If you're a true Christian then the best things to do would be to be honest with all the unsaved and tell them what the Bible actually teaches, not tickle their eyes. Thou shalt not bear false witness- you would do well to take heed of that!
You just stated that you did NOT choose your sexuality. But at the same time you believe homosexuals choose theirs? That's ridiculous. And why would anyone CHOOSE to be homosexual? So that they can be beaten, fired from their jobs, told they won't be allowed to buy a wedding cake? So that they can be murdered, treated awfully in school, driven to depression and suicide? So that people like you and Jeff can call them abominations, tell them that they first must be free of their sin before they can be saved? What sins did you and Jeff give up to make you good enough to be saved? What sins do you commit as "saved" people that don't alienate you from Jesus while you self righteously claim a homosexual cannot "sin" by being who he is with someone he loves? That is an absolutely ridiculous idea. As I stated before, the bigoted statements of some on this thread are certainly more honest and no more offensive.
You Pharisees are quick to find passages condemning people or make ludicrous comparisons with bestiality as Jeff has resorted to.
But the fact remains that the very statements you make are the same kinds of things the Nazis said about Jews AND homosexuals. Therein lies the leadership of your words--with the Nazis. And no matter how you try to shape the map, the path you are on leads to Westboro Baptist church.
Neither of you knows what sin is at all, because if either of you had looked into your own hearts you would see an uglier picture than that of any physical attraction by same sex oriented people. And once you see how ugly you are, you would become less willing to point fingers at others.
And has all the diatribe against "evil homosexuality" worked? Not at all, as young people abandon the evangelical churches of Laodicea in droves. They see real sin and want nothing to do with self righteous bible gurus who have no idea how to live a Godly life---only how to condemn the sins of others.
Young people who may be reading this, please don't fall into the snare of the devil by attending churches that teach these awful, people hating dogmas. You are not wanted as an individual valued by God for who you are, you are wanted as an instrument to continue gay-bashing pogroms. Some will veil it with sweet words, but all of them have Westboro Baptist church in their hearts.
Hate doesn't destroy hate, only love can do that. Acceptance without condition, love without measure, forgiveness beyond any depth is what Jesus calls His servants to do.
For a real Christian, not those on the road toward Westboro Baptist, God judges, the Holy Spirit convicts, and the servant's job is to love--not enumerate sins and number them one through a hundred.
I would rather burn in hell for loving homosexuals as God loves them, than reign in a Heaven with these examples of modern evangelistic churches. Please don't take the low road chosen by these people. Their ancestors endorsed racism and since that is no longer politically viable they have chosen homosexuals and there are many, many posts on this thread attributed to homosexuals that were attributed to black people in the sixties. I was there. I saw and heard it. Like a bad penny it has returned again with a new people to demean and oppress---and it's coming from the same churches. Leave them. Shake the dust off your feet, and never look back.
A true Christian is honest with himself or herself. It's not their job to point out sin to others. They spend more time reading the first verse of Romans two than reading all of chapter one.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 12-19-2014 at 01:12 AM..
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