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Yes and there is a bible quote on that too on what he said: “From the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife.” (Mark 10:6-7).
God created the institution of marriage: “God created man in His image; in the Divine image he created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them, saying: ‘Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.’” (Gen. 1:28-29)
There is no where in the bible God says to 2 men or 2 women to be fertile and multiply or gay marriages are blessed by God.
So can you show me with Bible verses only where God authorized David and Solomon to have hundreds of wives AND concubines? You know, concubines as in women that one sleeps with but doesn't marry. Kept women. Was there a problem with David and others not knowing God's will for one man, one woman?
I don't want an "explanation" for their actions, I only want biblical verses. And why is it NOW that evangelical churches say one man, one woman? Why not a hundred or so? Why would God show favor to men with multiple wives (sexual sin by today's "Christian" standards).
Could it be because He loved them anyway--despite their "sinfulness?"
If your faith isn't leading people to Christ but rather is driving them away, it is a false faith. And I don't care what your sexual orientation is.
The sad thing for you, other99, is you've become the poster child for evangelicals. Worse yet, you believe your own story, that if you can become celibate every homosexual can. I don't berate you for making the choice, only for believing that that is the only way a homosexual can find God. God is bigger and more accepting than you think. After all, he forgave me of my sins and has had the hound of Heaven on my heels ever since.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 12-19-2014 at 01:34 AM..
So can you show me with Bible verses only where God authorized David and Solomon to have hundreds of wives AND concubines? You know, concubines as in women that one sleeps with but doesn't marry. Kept women. Was there a problem with David and others not knowing God's will for one man, one woman?
I don't want an "explanation" for their actions, I only want biblical verses. And why is it NOW that evangelical churches say one man, one woman? Why not a hundred or so? Why would God show favor to men with multiple wives (sexual sin by today's "Christian" standards).
Could it be because He loved them anyway--despite their "sinfulness?"
If your faith isn't leading people to Christ but rather is driving them away, it is a false faith. And I don't care what your sexual orientation is.
The sad thing for you, other99, is you've become the poster child for evangelicals. Worse yet, you believe your own story, that if you can become celibate every homosexual can. I don't berate you for making the choice, only for believing that that is the only way a homosexual can find God. God is bigger and more accepting than you think. After all, he forgave me of my sins and has had the hound of Heaven on my heels ever since.
I have an idea about Mel White and I have met people like him as I have stated I used to go to a very gay friendly church where nearly everyone was gay or lesbian. Yes there were gay and lesbian couples and yes they did love each other as much as hetrosexual married people and loved Jesus.
Yet the Holy Spirit has lead me to avoid churches like that. I not to judge the people that attend them. Only the Lord God can truly judge. I do pray for them.
With regards to Soloman: God commanded him not to have all those wives and concubines:
1 Kings 11:1-3 reports,
But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites; from the nations of whom the LORD had said to the children of Israel,
“You shall not intermarry with them, nor they with you. Surely they will turn away your hearts after their gods.”
Solomon clung to these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.
Eventually Solomon turned away from the Lord in his old age.
1 Kings 11:4-9 states,
For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And likewise did he for all his foreign wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. And the LORD was angry with Solomon.
Yes the Lord did get angry at Soloman as he turned his back on the Lord and worshipped pagan gods.
With regards to the Bible all scripture is God breathed: 2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2 Peter 1: For know prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit
Jeremiah 1:2
to whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in dthe thirteenth year of his reign.
You just stated that you did NOT choose your sexuality. But at the same time you believe homosexuals choose theirs? That's ridiculous. And why would anyone CHOOSE to be homosexual? So that they can be beaten, fired from their jobs, told they won't be allowed to buy a wedding cake? So that they can be murdered, treated awfully in school, driven to depression and suicide? So that people like you and Jeff can call them abominations, tell them that they first must be free of their sin before they can be saved? What sins did you and Jeff give up to make you good enough to be saved? What sins do you commit as "saved" people that don't alienate you from Jesus while you self righteously claim a homosexual cannot "sin" by being who he is with someone he loves? That is an absolutely ridiculous idea. As I stated before, the bigoted statements of some on this thread are certainly more honest and no more offensive.
You Pharisees are quick to find passages condemning people or make ludicrous comparisons with bestiality as Jeff has resorted to.
But the fact remains that the very statements you make are the same kinds of things the Nazis said about Jews AND homosexuals. Therein lies the leadership of your words--with the Nazis. And no matter how you try to shape the map, the path you are on leads to Westboro Baptist church.
Neither of you knows what sin is at all, because if either of you had looked into your own hearts you would see an uglier picture than that of any physical attraction by same sex oriented people. And once you see how ugly you are, you would become less willing to point fingers at others.
And has all the diatribe against "evil homosexuality" worked? Not at all, as young people abandon the evangelical churches of Laodicea in droves. They see real sin and want nothing to do with self righteous bible gurus who have no idea how to live a Godly life---only how to condemn the sins of others.
Young people who may be reading this, please don't fall into the snare of the devil by attending churches that teach these awful, people hating dogmas. You are not wanted as an individual valued by God for who you are, you are wanted as an instrument to continue gay-bashing pogroms. Some will veil it with sweet words, but all of them have Westboro Baptist church in their hearts.
Hate doesn't destroy hate, only love can do that. Acceptance without condition, love without measure, forgiveness beyond any depth is what Jesus calls His servants to do.
For a real Christian, not those on the road toward Westboro Baptist, God judges, the Holy Spirit convicts, and the servant's job is to love--not enumerate sins and number them one through a hundred.
I would rather burn in hell for loving homosexuals as God loves them, than reign in a Heaven with these examples of modern evangelistic churches. Please don't take the low road chosen by these people. Their ancestors endorsed racism and since that is no longer politically viable they have chosen homosexuals and there are many, many posts on this thread attributed to homosexuals that were attributed to black people in the sixties. I was there. I saw and heard it. Like a bad penny it has returned again with a new people to demean and oppress---and it's coming from the same churches. Leave them. Shake the dust off your feet, and never look back.
A true Christian is honest with himself or herself. It's not their job to point out sin to others. They spend more time reading the first verse of Romans two than reading all of chapter one.
Sir, you keep trying to take the discussion of whether homosexuality is a sin and turn it into a justification for condemning those of us who oppose you and you make the claim we are attacking individuals and are guilty of murder when in fact we are attacking your attempt to redefine what is righteousness.
You and the world are trying to rewrite the Scriptures and declare that sex between two men is no longer a sin. You and the world want to legitimize sin and declare it no longer evil and you know it. You are trying to force people to accept sin and submit to all the evil that comes with that submission.
Revelation 2:
(20) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
The above is referring to something other than sexual sin but the parallel fits what you and your agenda are trying to do to those of us who are trying to hold fast to the teachings of God. You would have us call sin righteousness and righteousness sin if you could get away with it. And when we nail you on your motives and tactics you cry victim about people who are deliberately sinning and receiving just recompense for their sins just as anyone else would receive curses against them and their very lives if they go out and do some similar sin like adultery.
If God chose the words "thou sufferest that woman Jezebel" as a rebuke for those who allowed this evil in the Church shouldn't we also not suffer anyone to stand up and declare a sinful act to be no longer a sin! Think about it -- you are trying to seduce others into accepting this sin and you defy anyone to try to stand in your way.
Now, sin brings on death. You keep attacking the effects and try to totally ignore the cause which is that sex between two men is a sin against God which brings on curses and eventually death - the second death.
From the tactics you have displayed on this thread you would use any and every argument you could to make everyone bow down to your own personal definition of sin if you could get away with it. Thankfully, God has the Truth all written down in His Word so you are soundly defeated in all your attacks against righteousness and morality in general.
Please repent of your attempts to twist God's Truth into a lie.
Yes and there is a bible quote on that too on what he said: “From the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife.” (Mark 10:6-7).
God created the institution of marriage: “God created man in His image; in the Divine image he created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them, saying: ‘Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.’” (Gen. 1:28-29)
There is no where in the bible God says to 2 men or 2 women to be fertile and multiply or gay marriages are blessed by God.
Right, the only defense an atheist or gay Christian can make here is the argument from silence. "Well just because Jesus doesn't mention gay marriage doesn't mean He was against it!"
The problem with that argument is now you have God playing favorites since His Word only talks about heterosexual marriage and He only designed the physical anatomy to work best with heterosexual couples bonding through sex. That's not in the character of God. Our God is about equality for all.
I didnt choose, I was born that way. Its natural (Gen2:24).
But that would be lying to them which is an extremely wicked thing to do (2Cor 11:4). God doesnt love anybody outside of Jesus Christ(John 3:36). You must be born again(John 3:3).
God loves a repentant sinner who comes to Him with faith in His Son and His finished work at the cross(Rom 8:35).
If you're a true Christian then the best things to do would be to be honest with all the unsaved and tell them what the Bible actually teaches, not tickle their eyes. Thou shalt not bear false witness- you would do well to take heed of that!
What is natural is what is right for you. Someone else can be naturally homosexual, and that is what is right for them. The Bible does not tell gay people to take a life long vow of celibacy. Homosexuality was not clearly understood by the writers of the Bible. Sadly, you are more concerned about certain sins than you are about equality. Fortunately, we live in a country that strives to treat people equally, and allows same-sex marriage. Please don't respond with a Biblical quote, because neither god or his son wrote the Bible.
You just stated that you did NOT choose your sexuality. But at the same time you believe homosexuals choose theirs? That's ridiculous. And why would anyone CHOOSE to be homosexual? So that they can be beaten, fired from their jobs, told they won't be allowed to buy a wedding cake? So that they can be murdered, treated awfully in school, driven to depression and suicide? So that people like you and Jeff can call them abominations, tell them that they first must be free of their sin before they can be saved? What sins did you and Jeff give up to make you good enough to be saved? What sins do you commit as "saved" people that don't alienate you from Jesus while you self righteously claim a homosexual cannot "sin" by being who he is with someone he loves? That is an absolutely ridiculous idea. As I stated before, the bigoted statements of some on this thread are certainly more honest and no more offensive.
.
Do you guys ever think about that perhaps our developmental environment, from the womb to the world, had any effect on how our sexual orientation developed? I argue that people aren't born gay, but they can absolutely grow to lean towards that preference due to psychological developmental factors. I look at my two younger brothers, and how they are totally different people than me, even though we all were raised essentially the same. We're all straight men, but our personalities and preferences are not the same by any means. We have things in common, most definitely, be we're not all the same person even though we had the same opportunities and parents. I don't get why it either has to be "I was gay from birth!" or "You chose to be gay!".
Do you guys ever think about that perhaps our developmental environment, from the womb to the world, had any effect on how our sexual orientation developed? I argue that people aren't born gay, but they can absolutely grow to lean towards that preference due to psychological developmental factors. I look at my two younger brothers, and how they are totally different people than me, even though we all were raised essentially the same. We're all straight men, but our personalities and preferences are not the same by any means. We have things in common, most definitely, be we're not all the same person even though we had the same opportunities and parents. I don't get why it either has to be "I was gay from birth!" or "You chose to be gay!".
I really wish I knew more about psychology...
From my limited education in Psychology I believe it is a learned psychological change. Sadly the studies that are public seem to avoid research that might show this in relation to homosexual desires but we have huge volumes of studies as it relates to all kinds of behavior that show what happens psychologically.
I have an idea about Mel White and I have met people like him as I have stated I used to go to a very gay friendly church where nearly everyone was gay or lesbian. Yes there were gay and lesbian couples and yes they did love each other as much as hetrosexual married people and loved Jesus.
Yet the Holy Spirit has lead me to avoid churches like that. I not to judge the people that attend them. Only the Lord God can truly judge. I do pray for them.
With regards to Soloman: God commanded him not to have all those wives and concubines:
1 Kings 11:1-3 reports,
But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites; from the nations of whom the LORD had said to the children of Israel,
“You shall not intermarry with them, nor they with you. Surely they will turn away your hearts after their gods.”
Solomon clung to these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.
Eventually Solomon turned away from the Lord in his old age.
1 Kings 11:4-9 states,
For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And likewise did he for all his foreign wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. And the LORD was angry with Solomon.
Yes the Lord did get angry at Soloman as he turned his back on the Lord and worshipped pagan gods.
With regards to the Bible all scripture is God breathed: 2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2 Peter 1: For know prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit
Jeremiah 1:2
to whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in dthe thirteenth year of his reign.
Well, your verses of scripture in Kings show God didn't want the Israelites to intermarry--and then along comes Ruth and it's okay.
When 2nd Timothy was written there was no New Testament. Christians after the fact have applied it to the New Testament---and at one time it was viewed as applying to books considered apocryphal by Protestants and inspired by Roman Catholics. Until the reformation those apocryphal books were considered inspired by everybody. Then Protestants, who didn't agree with some of the doctrine developed from them said they weren't inspired.
If you, as a Protestant, can reject some of the originally accepted inspired books of the Bible, why be upset that others see writings in YOUR bible as man-made and in opposition to Jesus. The God of the Old Testament was very changeable if you believe in plenary verbal inspiration. The writers got it wrong scientifically and even prophetically. This happened not because they were not trying to express their understanding of God, but because they were human.
If you want to see the conflicts within scripture, study the bible scholastically. Ignorant men want to prevent truth seekers from delving into how and why scripture was composed.
I am a liberal with my view of scripture. The surest way to make a liberal is to have a person study scripture scholastically. Many former bible students who were fundamentalists have become liberal (and a few have lost their faith because, IMO, it was never founded in Christ), but I've never heard of a serious Bible student turning from liberal to fundamentalist.
If you really are a truth seeker then know that at one time (no longer) now fundamentalist churches taught the priesthood of the believer---where every person can read and interpret scripture for themselves. Now the politicized church rejects that view. It has, in effect, become a Roman Catholic hierarchy while holding on to the image of Protestantism.
Or refuse to learn for yourself and remain tied to the strings of a church which will never allow you to be who you are.
If you've read Mel White's autobiography then you know of his prayers to God to deliver him from "evil," his attempt for 25 years to maintain the facade of conservative Christianity, and then his awakening with the words of a real Christian who accepted him as he was, not as conservative apostates demanded he be.
You are a gay man. God did not say "it is good for man to be alone." He made women because almost all of nature reproduces with the union of two sexes--and therefore heterosexuality simply must be in the preponderance for any species to survive. But a small proportion of cattle and dogs and even fruit flies exhibit both male and female homosexuality. Was God a liar when He created everything and said "it is good?"
As I said before, if you choose celibacy to honor God, good for you. If you choose it because you believe God wanted to create you as a sinner, you haven't studied scripture deeply enough.
You are a gay man. God did not say "it is good for man to be alone." He made women because almost all of nature reproduces with the union of two sexes--and therefore heterosexuality simply must be in the preponderance for any species to survive. But a small proportion of cattle and dogs and even fruit flies exhibit both male and female homosexuality. Was God a liar when He created everything and said "it is good?"
This is an interesting point. Yet, I say that these things are possible because creation itself is imperfect. God is the only perfect being, so in comparison all that He creates can never be as perfect as Himself.
I also believe that, as far as we're told in the Bible, man and woman were the only beings created in God's image, thus we are held to a higher standard. Animals, insects, plants, etc. aren't accountable to God for their actions. I don't believe these things are offered salvation or are given the means of repentance as humans are. Can we really blame them for succumbing to the lusts of the flesh? They also have no knowledge of good or evil as humans do.
Also, God may have said all he created was "good", but who are we to presume what he meant by that? I get what you're saying, and I suppose we could apply that kind of logic to any scripture, but it makes me wonder.
The sad thing for you, other99, is you've become the poster child for evangelicals. Worse yet, you believe your own story, that if you can become celibate every homosexual can. I don't berate you for making the choice, only for believing that that is the only way a homosexual can find God. God is bigger and more accepting than you think. After all, he forgave me of my sins and has had the hound of Heaven on my heels ever since.
Quote:
Wardendresden;
You are a gay man. God did not say "it is good for man to be alone." He made women because almost all of nature reproduces with the union of two sexes--and therefore heterosexuality simply must be in the preponderance for any species to survive. But a small proportion of cattle and dogs and even fruit flies exhibit both male and female homosexuality. Was God a liar when He created everything and said "it is good?"
As I said before, if you choose celibacy to honor God, good for you. If you choose it because you believe God wanted to create you as a sinner, you haven't studied scripture deeply enough.
Luke 6:39
(39) And he spake a parable unto them,Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
Sir, how can you lead others when you are spiritually blind?
You do not know the scriptures. God would never ever try to entice someone to engage in sin and try to get one to drop godly standards. You are apparently seething with rage that someone has actually overcome your supposedly impossible-to-overcome pet sin because it exposes you as one who is misleading others for all to see.
You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to seduce people with your twisting of the Scriptures in order to lead others deeper and deeper into sin.
Act 17:30
(30) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Revelation 2:23-24
(23) And I will kill her children with death; andall the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Revelation 19:7-8
(7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Psalm 119:172
(172) My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Rev 14:12
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
You are to keep the commandments of God and not the false doctrines of men.
I urge you to repent of all of your wickedness that you are engaging in by condoning this terrrible sin and teaching your false doctrines to others.
tthttf
Last edited by tthttf; 12-19-2014 at 12:21 PM..
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