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It's a tragedy that some people would rather read an ancient book than take the time to learn about humans and the world we live in today.
When you look at the kind of wishful thinking that has propped up faith for a millennia, there’s every reason to believe that a culture of faith is a culture of deception for children and of self-deception on the part of the adults.
The one thing I can say with certainty is that these "holy" books show no sign of being authored by an omniscient intelligence, and that really is the only thing one need be certain about to torpedo Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The Bible and the Quran are both deeply inadequate books on every level: scientifically, historically, medically, aesthetically, ethically, spiritually, contemplatively. These are just not the best books we have on any topic, and they should be if they were written by the creator of the Universe.
Mat, many of us here have fought against this fundy understanding of the bible. We do not believe like the fundy that the bible is the "infallible, unaltered word of God". We believe the bible was written by men, just like us, and they made many errors in their understanding of God, the world and just about everything else.
However that is no difference then the way science began. Understanding in science changed as people came to a better understanding of what was taking place in them and the world around them. and this is the way many of us view the bible.
thus Your simply mixing us up with the fundy's and making an argument out of something we actually agree on. Try separating the two groups of Christians that are on this forum and address them accordingly. otherwise you will continue to make error in your judgment of what we do and do not believe.
thus Your simply mixing us up with the fundy's and making an argument out of something we actually agree on. Try separating the two groups of Christians that are on this forum and address them accordingly. otherwise you will continue to make error in your judgment of what we do and do not believe.
Good luck with that. M doesn't even recognize that parroting fundy ideas is only criticizing fundies.
Science, in its simplest form, is a process of data collection, interpretation, and used to make some predictions. it is not anit-religion. That's like saying math is anti art.
List the traits that we would associate with a fundy. Matt fits. I don't care what the belief system is. All belief systems have the funnies.
Love, compassion, and understanding are at odds with hate, indifference, and ignorance. These are people types and not "fields" that people work or live in. Thes are perspectives not entities. Science and religion are fine together.
If the people are hateful, intolerant, and ignorant then they will fight anybody and anything. If they are religious they fight non religious or each other. If they are scientist they will fight other scientist or anybody over anything. These people don't care what the facts are. They care only about the safety of their world views and belief systems. they will make stuff up if they have to.
For what it worth, I leanered that from the four gospels. It would be nice if religion dumped the magic though. It would be nice to dump this 6 day creation thing, walking on water, and what not ... and move on. As long as people hold onto that they keep eating an apple; that is just an apple to the rest of us.
Atheist that laugh at apologetics are not the ones that understand that it is ok to change your mind with new information. use the data collected to support a belief. Now tell me who is sicker? those that do or those that don't?
"Love, compassion, and understanding are at odds with hate, indifference, and ignorance. These are people types and not "fields" that people work or live in. Thes are perspectives not entities. Science and religion are fine together."
Science, in its simplest form, is a process of data collection, interpretation, and used to make some predictions. it is not anit-religion. That's like saying math is anti art.
List the traits that we would associate with a fundy. Matt fits. I don't care what the belief system is. All belief systems have the funnies.
Love, compassion, and understanding are at odds with hate, indifference, and ignorance. These are people types and not "fields" that people work or live in. Thes are perspectives not entities. Science and religion are fine together.
If the people are hateful, intolerant, and ignorant then they will fight anybody and anything. If they are religious they fight non religious or each other. If they are scientist they will fight other scientist or anybody over anything. These people don't care what the facts are. They care only about the safety of their world views and belief systems. they will make stuff up if they have to.
For what it worth, I leanered that from the four gospels. It would be nice if religion dumped the magic though. It would be nice to dump this 6 day creation thing, walking on water, and what not ... and move on. As long as people hold onto that they keep eating an apple; that is just an apple to the rest of us.
Atheist that laugh at apologetics are not the ones that understand that it is ok to change your mind with new information. use the data collected to support a belief. Now tell me who is sicker? those that do or those that don't?
Huh never said anything about atheism, just said your jurney obviously did not start with God.
You have no knowledge of this at all. My journey started with something better than your man created disgusting god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Nope I just pick Jesus word over and above all others for he is the only one who really knows the Father.
Do you even know what christian means?
it means follower of Christ.
therefore as I only follow Christs words how can I be anything other then a Christian.
Silly question. You are following a man created religion that has you believing in a very constrained way of thinking that there is only one way to go about spiritual development. All exclusiveness is exactly how cults operate.
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Originally Posted by pneuma
Does it? your obviously not very well read. Have you never read that God got upset with Israel because they went and served OTHER gods?
The jealous vengeful, self serving god that you worship dares you to worship no other god but him. How is this spiritually uplifting to you?
The Christian God as presented in the Bible has got to be the most unpleasant characters in ALL FICTION writings…this fictitious God is Jealous and proud of it. Petty, vindictive unjust, unforgiving, racist and an ethnic cleanser urging his people on to acts of genocide.
It makes sense why religion has failed...you don't evolve spiritually by worshiping this type of god or reading horrific words written by man and then using it as a "holy" text.
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See Deuteronomy 13 “13 “If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
Yep be proud to tout that you worship and follow the Bible. Kill your own brother, son, daughter, wife or closest friends if they choose to worship another god? WOW just WOW!!!!! This is truly sick.
Also did you miss reading this? A man offering his virgin daughter to be raped only to save the guest from being raped. Nice. That book is the sickest most evil book on planet earth.
Quote:
See Judges 19 “While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.” The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.” But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.
Your holy text does not provide a moral framework for others to live by…because the holy texts you worship are of dubious origin’s and veracity and they’re internally contradictory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
care to put that to the test? give me some of this empirical evedence and let see.
You are a lost cause if you are making the claim that science is faith based.
If you don't understand that science is evidence based then there is nothing more to discuss.
You need to brush up on your vocabulary.
Faith is believe in something that has no evidence or proof....it's not even testable.
Evidence is data that is generated through experimentation or observation. It informs us as to whether something it true or not.
I don't have faith that gravity exits. I know and understand that it exists.
The point of science and the reason it works is because you don’t try and prove something that you like to be true…you also try and prove it to be false…and that is what is really important.
You don’t just find a way to say the rainbows are caused by some faith idea…you actually try and see if your ideas are wrong and ask what is more plausible based on evidence and inquiry.
Mat, many of us here have fought against this fundy understanding of the bible. We do not believe like the fundy that the bible is the "infallible, unaltered word of God". We believe the bible was written by men, just like us, and they made many errors in their understanding of God, the world and just about everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
thus Your simply mixing us up with the fundy's and making an argument out of something we actually agree on. Try separating the two groups of Christians that are on this forum and address them accordingly. otherwise you will continue to make error in your judgment of what we do and do not believe.
Thanks, but I have been keeping this in perspective...it appears that I am simply dealing with a variety of fundys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
However that is no difference then the way science began. Understanding in science changed as people came to a better understanding of what was taking place in them and the world around them. and this is the way many of us view the bible.
It is completely opposite of how science began and evolved.
The way the interpretation of the bible has evolved by the more open minded Christians is a bit different than how our scientific knowledge has evolved.
- Science evolves whenever a new discovery supported by evidence is shared that supports an idea or theory or whenever an observation disproves previous evidence.
- Interpretation of the bible evolves several hundred years after new scientific evidence is available that conflicts with the bible story. This seems to be true for social norms as well. Look how long it took to have women priests. The several branches of Christianity still won't allow women priests. As if women aren't equally or more connected to God than men. All this stems from the "fact" that none of the apostles were women. It won't change until the concept that women can't be as spiritual or faithful as a man is seen as absurd, by the vast majority of the Christians in that branch of faith.
Good luck with that. M doesn't even recognize that parroting fundy ideas is only criticizing fundies.
Fundy ideas?
You fundys are so confused and misguided that your religion has you looking down on science.
You should be thankful for science or you would still be living in the Dark Ages.
Our current understanding of nature has changed and developed since the Bible Myth was first touted by Iron Age peasants who didn’t know that the Earth orbited the Sun…therefore it’s natural that science is inconsistent with those claims that were based on ignorance.
Why should we revere those ancient claims as sacred when they are based on ignorance?
It's intellectually lazy to stop asking questions and stop looking for physical explanation’s and just say God did it. This is exactly what fundys do.
Noting the inconsistencies between science and the bible is not fundyism. Claiming that science is wrong and that the bible is correct is as fundy as it gets.
As I said, can't tell the difference and doesn't WANT to.
You make no sense. However, I suspect that you can't tell the difference because you don't know the differences.
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