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I have no problem with your central premise expressed in the last line of your post. But the bias against females is a function of the male dominance at the time and the exclusion by men of women's versions of the writings. The relating of who was an apostle is equally biased because Mary Magdalene was purportedly the closest to Jesus and knew more than her male counterparts. In fact, her Gospel and her understanding of Christ's message have been completely eliminated from the Bible canon.
yup. The Salem whitch hunt might have been about power more than anything else.
I have no problem with your central premise expressed in the last line of your post. But the bias against females is a function of the male dominance at the time and the exclusion by men of women's versions of the writings. The relating of who was an apostle is equally biased because Mary Magdalene was purportedly the closest to Jesus and knew more than her male counterparts. In fact, her Gospel and her understanding of Christ's message have been completely eliminated from the Bible canon.
That's exactly my point. The church willfully ignores the facts and hides them to keep the flock ignorant and under its influence. 2,000 years of suppressing the facts in this case. If Mary Magdalene was the closest to Jesus shouldn't her knowledge of Jesus been included in the bible and been the most prominent? Science seeks to expose the facts and advance our understanding of the universe and God if we ever gain the means. Religion seeks to repress the facts and keep us from thinking for ourselves by telling us that what they teach is the infallible truth.
Yup, were dealing with a fundamental mindset who simply cannot see the difference. Because she cannot see the difference (which is obvious by her responses ) make one wonder if she even knows what she is talking about concerning science. After all she says science is hard to understand, whereas seeing the difference between the fundy's and us is not hard to see and yet she cannot see that which is easy.
LOL...I suppose you call anyone who does not follow your religion or way of thinking a fundamentalist.
She does not see your label because it it does not exist.
Show me where I stated that science was hard?
I said it's complex and many of these bible worshipers who are the loudest naysayers against the scientific evidence we have with respect to understanding the Universe around us are the ones who appear challenged by science.
LOL I said your journey did not start with God and you just confirmed what I said. Yet you say I have no idea
You are so closed mined and conditioned by your religious beliefs that you don't understand what I am saying. What you call god, I call something entirely different.
The Christian god that you worship does not exist. Since you claim that your journey started with the Christian god, I would like to understand how you came to this conclusion since this god does not exist?
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Originally Posted by pneuma
Like nate said you do not want to see the difference or even understand what we see. Take note of the underlined. I already explained that what we believe is not exclusiveness but ALL will get to the SAME spiritual enlightenment. Whereas what you believe about science seems to be an exclusive group for as you say us non-scientist cannot grasp the science. In other words you place yourselve in an exclusive group of the higher enlightened. And as you said [u] All exclusiveness is exactly how cults operate.
Such a bizarre rant.
Science is not an exclusive group as anyone can study science. A non-scientist is simply a person who is not a scientist. Interesting that you get all riled up about this.
Do you see others who are educated in other disciplines as being all exclusive? Or is it just those trained in science that you have resentment towards?
I never said or implied that a non-scientist can't grasp science. But I will say that has been the overwhelming observation in the religious thread with the exception of a few.
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Originally Posted by pneuma
You say you make the distinction between the fundy's and us then proceed to show you do not. the crap you wrote about above is ONLY applicable to what the fundy's believe, not what we believe.
You are not helping your case here. Only a closed minded fundamentalist would not understand the difference between a discipline that conducts itself through inquiry, testabilty, reproducibleability, observation, open reviews, relying upon facts versus opinions, uses the formulation of falsifiable hypotheses, undergoes a process of publication and independent peer review...before scientific ideas are accepted. vs. a system that does none of the above.
The great thing about science vs. religion is that your willing to change your beliefs…you are not assuming the answers before you ask the question. You are not assuming that you know it’s divinely right just because you interpret a certain book to mean a certain thing and someone else determines it to mean something else…which you see when people interpret the Bible.
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Originally Posted by pneuma
Lol just as I figured you do not want to put you faith based science to a test.
If you had any understanding about how science is conducted you would see how nonsensical this statement is.
Now do you get why I say that non-scientist are clearly challenged about science?
Science is about proving or disproving the the hypothesis. This is the opposite of faith.
Science asks questions. Faith does not.
It's clear that you are challenged by the scientific methods since you see them as faith based.
You also appear to be confused about the fact that you follow a faith based religion.
Science seeks to expose the facts and advance our understanding of the universe and the spirit world if we ever gain the means. Religion seeks to repress the facts and keep us from thinking for ourselves by telling us that what they teach is the infallible truth.
You need to get this through your thick head, WE DO NOT LOOK DOWN ON SCIENCE. Many fundy's might but WE DO NOT.
Is this how Jesus teaches you to talk to people?
Of course you look down on science. You even call it a faith.
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Originally Posted by pneuma
Did you ever think that what you call the bible myth is nothing more than a parable? and that science in part is that which help us unlock the understanding of the parable? obviously not.
LOL the entire bible, not just your pick and choose parts are all a myth and depending on which flavor of Christianity you are following will depend on how they view the bible.
You want to argue that's its a parable but yet you make these claims which arise from this parable.
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Nope I just pick Jesus word over and above all others for he is the only one who really knows the Father.
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therefore as I only follow Christs words how can I be anything other then a Christian
This is fundamentalism at it's finest. Now take careful note. Science has never supported these claims...why? Because science is not faith based as these claims are.
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Originally Posted by pneuma
yep fundy's might just do that, but again we are NOT fundy's and until you can see the difference you will never understand what we believe.
You are the perfect example of a fundy...especially when you make the above claims.
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Originally Posted by pneuma
I agree that is as fundy as it gets. However as has been stated several times by many of us WE ARE NOT FUNDY'S. Heck even the fundy's can see the difference between what we believe and they believe, many stating that we are not Christians because we refuse to believe as they do.
This is interesting...you make fundy claims about what you believe, but then turn around and condemn the other fundies.
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Originally Posted by pneuma
so pull your head out of the sand and you just might be able to have a good conversation with many of us. but until you learn to tell the difference between the fundy's and us that will never happen. the balls in your court.
When you learn to show civility in a discussion...then and only then can the conversation be productive.
LOL...I suppose you call anyone who does not follow your religion or way of thinking a fundamentalist.
She does not see your label because it it does not exist.
Show me where I stated that science was hard?
I said it's complex and many of these bible worshipers who are the loudest naysayers against the scientific evidence we have with respect to understanding the Universe around us are the ones who appear challenged by science.
nope just call someone who has a fundamentalist mind set (which you have shown you do, more then just me has pointed this out to you) someone who has a fundamentalist mind set. You simply use the same mind set as a fundy Christian to everyone who is a Christian, lumping us all into one category. stop it, as a scientist you are suppose to be open minded, so far you have been very closed minded to what some of us have put forth.
nope just call someone who has a fundamentalist mind set (which you have shown you do, more then just me has pointed this out to you) someone who has a fundamentalist mind set. You simply use the same mind set as a fundy Christian to everyone who is a Christian, lumping us all into one category. stop it, as a scientist you are suppose to be open minded, so far you have been very closed minded to what some of us have put forth.
This is just a simple straw man argument with no substance.
I am open minded and I do not lump all "Christians" into one group...actually there are several groups depending on which level of fundamentalism they choose to follow.
If you make fundamental claims does it really matter if you take the bible literally or see it as a parable?
I am simply listening to the claims made by the individual themselves vs. what the particular religion promotes.
You may think the bible is only a parable but yet you make claims that are 100% fundamental.
You are so closed mined and conditioned by your religious beliefs that you don't
understand what I am saying. What you call god, I call something entirely
different.
oh my goodness, I said your jurney did not start with God and you are arguing that fact by stating your jurney did not start with God.
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The Christian god that you worship does not exist. Since you claim that your
journey started with the Christian god, I would like to understand how you came
to this conclusion since this god does not exist?
Got any science to back that claim up? or are you just basing that claim on faith
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Such a bizarre rant.
Science is not an exclusive group as anyone can study science. A
non-scientist is simply a person who is not a scientist. Interesting that you
get all riled up about this.
Do you see others who are educated in other disciplines as being all
exclusive? Or is it just those trained in science that you have resentment
towards?
hmm your the one who said All exclusiveness is exactly how cults operate.
You believe because you study science you are more enlightened then those who don't, thus setting yourself in an exclussive group, which YOU called a cult, NOT me. whats the matter don't like it when the table is turn back on you.
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I never said or implied that a non-scientist can't grasp science. But I will
say that has been the overwhelming observation in the religious thread with the
exception of a few.
You are not helping your case here. Only a closed minded fundamentalist would
not understand the difference between a discipline that conducts itself through
inquiry, testabilty, reproducibleability, observation, open reviews, relying
upon facts versus opinions, uses the formulation of falsifiable hypotheses,
undergoes a process of publication and independent peer review...before
scientific ideas are accepted. vs. a system that does none of the above.
actually that is the exact way I approach the bible, but you would know nothing about that seeing as how you lump all christian with a fundy label.
Quote:
The great thing about science vs. religion is that your willing to change
your beliefs…you are not assuming the answers before you ask the question. You
are not assuming that you know it’s divinely right just because you interpret a
certain book to mean a certain thing and someone else determines it to mean
something else…which you see when people interpret the Bible.
If someone did not interpret science different then others, science would have stagnated a long time ago.
Quote:
If you had any understanding about how science is conducted you would see how
nonsensical this statement is.
Now do you get why I say that non-scientist are clearly challenged about
science?
Science is about proving or disproving the the hypothesis. This is the
opposite of faith.
Science asks questions. Faith does not.
It's clear that you are challenged by the scientific methods since you see
them as faith based.
You also appear to be confused about the fact that you follow a faith based
religion.
Science seeks to expose the facts and advance our understanding of the
universe and the spirit world if we ever gain the means. Religion seeks to
repress the facts and keep us from thinking for ourselves by telling us that
what they teach is the infallible truth
again and again you lump all christians in the same boat, tis why you are having such a hard time understanding the differences between us. I asked you to show me some of your science, you refuse to do so, thus showing you cannot prove your science to be anything other then faith based. Kind of like your faith in there being no God, can't prove it by science thus showing your science is faith based.
well someone had to shout it at you because you could not see it though a few of us kept pointing it out to you.
Quote:
Of course you look down on science. You even call it a faith.
I said it was faith based, you proved my statement correct when you said there is no God, yet do not have any science to back up that claim.
Quote:
LOL the entire bible, not just your pick and choose parts are all a myth and
depending on which flavor of Christianity you are following will depend on how
they view the bible.
So Israel and all the nations mentioned in the bible are just myths, good grief you need to take history into acount as well as your science.
Quote:
You want to argue that's its a parable but yet you make these claims which
arise from this parable.
This is fundamentalism at it's finest. Now take careful note. Science has
never supported these claims...why? Because science is not faith based as these
claims are.
You are the perfect example of a fundy...especially when you make the above
claims.
This is interesting...you make fundy claims about what you believe, but then
turn around and condemn the other fundies.
When you learn to show civility in a discussion...then and only then can the
conversation be productive.
what claims are you going on about now? come on show me what claims I have made.
Sorry if my shouting at you upset you so much, but you just were not getting what myself and others were telling you, and it was the only way that I could see to hopefully make it clear to you. If you truely want a productive convo you absulutly have to seperate many of us here from mainstream christianity, which is something you have not been able to do.
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