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I don't know about anyone else, but ...my head is beginning to spin with regard to the direction this thread has taken. The question initially asked was: Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins? And, it IS a genuine question to have asked since Christians (generally speaking) DO make a bigger deal of homosexuality than they would, for instance, for divorce and remarriage ...even though their professed moral guide (the Bible) CLEARLY condemns the latter. Not so much homosexuality, however. Even Jesus was silent on the matter of homosexuality which is rather surprising since He had ample opportunity to address the issue IF it had been an issue. Jesus was not too shy at addressing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and bringing them to task, at shaking off any criticism when He associated with the 'sinners' of the day, having addressed the question of divorce when asked and responding by saying that anyone who remarries while their former spouse is living is committing adultery. But, as said, no mention of homosexuality. It WOULD have been interesting to hear Jesus' views on homosexuality - maybe He would not have approved - but we'll never know.
Paul - the new and improved edition of Jesus to many - was either made aware of by others, or perhaps witnessed for himself, the worship practices that were being performed in pagan temples. Indeed, he addresses this in Romans 1, a scripture that has, either by accident or design, become the main 'gay condemning' tool of many conservative Christians. And, this particular scripture has become such a 'darling' of the anti-gay Christian brigade that they are loathe to admit that it does INDEED address pagan cult worship practices and NOT homosexuality as we today define the term 'homosexuality'. I have REPEATEDLY challenged others to present just one Bible text that addresses homosexuality in any other situation than 'idolatry' (or perhaps the intent to rape) but while they continue to condemn homosexuality they remain conveniently oblivious to my challenge.
Why? Well, those who choose to condemn others, for whatever reason, can't stand to have the rug of hatred pulled out from underneath them. They NEED the scriptures that appear to condemn, especially those scriptures that fulfill an inner, personal need to condemn. And, this is what we most often see going on here. Yes, Christians, generally, certainly DO highlight 'the sin' of homosexuality (a normal variant on the continuum of human sexuality) while ignoring the more glaring examples of 'Bible no-nos' within the actual church setting such as divorce and remarriage. As for marriage infidelity ...do any of you ever recall a pastor asking his congregation for a show of hands on that one?
The Bible condemns homosexuality. The evidence you have proven to contradict such conclusions has been weight in the balances and found to be far too lacking.
Additionally, nobody has to 'condemn' others for homosexuality. This is a red herring. Homosexuality is already condemned and nobody has to condemn someone for it. We wrestle not against flesh and blood. Therefore, the Bible doesn't teach to hate homosexuals. Anyone saying such is wrong. But we are to hate homosexuality. People need to draw that difference.
God teaches his Followers to love all and that include the homosexual. Homosexuality is a sin. Those that teach it, condone it, support it, etc... are only leading others towards the pit. They will share in that consequence.
Now I have asked you repeatedly to tell me what the meaning of why Jesus said two swords was enough. Can you now answer that?
The Bible condemns homosexuality. The evidence you have proven to contradict such conclusions has been weight in the balances and found to be far too lacking.
Additionally, nobody has to 'condemn' others for homosexuality. This is a red herring. Homosexuality is already condemned and nobody has to condemn someone for it. We wrestle not against flesh and blood. Therefore, the Bible doesn't teach to hate homosexuals. Anyone saying such is wrong. But we are to hate homosexuality. People need to draw that difference.
God teaches his Followers to love all and that include the homosexual. Homosexuality is a sin. Those that teach it, condone it, support it, etc... are only leading others towards the pit. They will share in that consequence.
Now I have asked you repeatedly to tell me what the meaning of why Jesus said two swords was enough. Can you now answer that?
The fact that this thread has gone on now for almost 400 pages demonstrates who the real haters are. It's not Christians. It's the bigots that ignore what we actually say and then put motive in our hearts.
The fact that this thread has gone on now for almost 400 pages demonstrates who the real haters are. It's not Christians. It's the bigots that ignore what we actually say and then put motive in our hearts.
But this is of the devices that will be used. They will exalt abominations and obfuscate the Truth and cast it to the ground and trample it and prosper. This is what is prophesied until the Truth Himself comes.
I don't know about anyone else, but ...my head is beginning to spin with regard to the direction this thread has taken. The question initially asked was: Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins? And, it IS a genuine question to have asked since Christians (generally speaking) DO make a bigger deal of homosexuality than they would, for instance, for divorce and remarriage ...even though their professed moral guide (the Bible) CLEARLY condemns the latter. Not so much homosexuality, however. Even Jesus was silent on the matter of homosexuality which is rather surprising since He had ample opportunity to address the issue IF it had been an issue. Jesus was not too shy at addressing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and bringing them to task, at shaking off any criticism when He associated with the 'sinners' of the day, having addressed the question of divorce when asked and responding by saying that anyone who remarries while their former spouse is living is committing adultery. But, as said, no mention of homosexuality. It WOULD have been interesting to hear Jesus' views on homosexuality - maybe He would not have approved - but we'll never know.
Paul - the new and improved edition of Jesus to many - was either made aware of by others, or perhaps witnessed for himself, the worship practices that were being performed in pagan temples. Indeed, he addresses this in Romans 1, a scripture that has, either by accident or design, become the main 'gay condemning' tool of many conservative Christians. And, this particular scripture has become such a 'darling' of the anti-gay Christian brigade that they are loathe to admit that it does INDEED address pagan cult worship practices and NOT homosexuality as we today define the term 'homosexuality'. I have REPEATEDLY challenged others to present just one Bible text that addresses homosexuality in any other situation than 'idolatry' (or perhaps the intent to rape) but while they continue to condemn homosexuality they remain conveniently oblivious to my challenge.
Why? Well, those who choose to condemn others, for whatever reason, can't stand to have the rug of hatred pulled out from underneath them. They NEED the scriptures that appear to condemn, especially those scriptures that fulfill an inner, personal need to condemn. And, this is what we most often see going on here. Yes, Christians, generally, certainly DO highlight 'the sin' of homosexuality (a normal variant on the continuum of human sexuality) while ignoring the more glaring examples of 'Bible no-nos' within the actual church setting such as divorce and remarriage. As for marriage infidelity ...do any of you ever recall a pastor asking his congregation for a show of hands on that one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040
The Bible condemns homosexuality.
Yes, so you keep saying. Where?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040
The evidence you have proven to contradict such conclusions has been weight in the balances and found to be far too lacking.
I haven't provided any evidence. All I've done is to say repeatedly that the Bible authors would not have had a clue what 'homosexuality' even WAS ...let alone address it. I have also stated many more times than should be necessary that the ONLY reference in the Bible to same gender sex is relative to idolatry and temple prostitution. All one has to do is to read the Bible texts pertaining to same gender sex practices within their appropriate contexts and no further 'evidence' per se is necessary. Just read!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040
Additionally, nobody has to 'condemn' others for homosexuality. This is a red herring. Homosexuality is already condemned and nobody has to condemn someone for it. We wrestle not against flesh and blood. Therefore, the Bible doesn't teach to hate homosexuals. Anyone saying such is wrong. But we are to hate homosexuality. People need to draw that difference.
Already addressed. Nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040
God teaches his Followers to love all and that include the homosexual. Homosexuality is a sin. Those that teach it, condone it, support it, etc... are only leading others towards the pit. They will share in that consequence.
Yeah, okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWillCome2040
Now I have asked you repeatedly to tell me what the meaning of why Jesus said two swords was enough. Can you now answer that?
No, I can't. If it has anything to do with this topic then please tell me.
I am asking specific questions about a specific person views, and talking about a specific persons belief about what he thinks God is and does. He believes you are created gay or atheist, and then God punishes you for it... I am just trying to figure out his beliefs, not Christianity on the whole.
all you have to do is read the Bible to discover what God thinks....it's all in there
there is a big difference between human beings and animals and that is because humanity is made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27 "then God said, “let us make man in our image, after our likeness. and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”) the catch phrase being "made in our image, i.e., the attributes and characteristics of God, while animals are not designed with such. being made in the image and likeness of God means that human beings are like God, capable of spirituality, possessing a mind, emotions, and free will, something that continues with us when we die and are ushered into the presence of the Lord.
The fact that this thread has gone on now for almost 400 pages demonstrates who the real haters are. It's not Christians. It's the bigots that ignore what we actually say and then put motive in our hearts.
Why has it gone on for 400 pages? Response like this...
The content in the Bible obviously is not pro-homosexual behavior. The response...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Yes, so you keep saying. Where?
Then when evidence is given, all of a sudden - they didn't know what homosexuality is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
I haven't provided any evidence. All I've done is to say repeatedly that the Bible authors would not have had a clue what 'homosexuality' even WAS ...let alone address it.
The unbelievers will never concede the issue and continue moving the target... Christians continue to try and win the argument. It's a toxic mix.
Why has it gone on for 400 pages? Response like this...
The content in the Bible obviously is not pro-homosexual behavior. The response...
Then when evidence is given, all of a sudden - they didn't know what homosexuality is...
The unbelievers will never concede the issue and continue moving the target... Christians continue to try and win the argument. It's a toxic mix.
First, pretty sure the person you quoted (Romulus) is a Christian.
But the people you think are Christians are the ones just trying to win an argument rather than get at the truth, which has it's foundation in LOVE. You and the people you have judged to be Christians show no concern or compassion or gentleness or kindness (ie. no love) for those who are gay, so you are the ones making the mix "toxic".
I don't know about anyone else, but ...my head is beginning to spin with regard to the direction this thread has taken. The question initially asked was: Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins? And, it IS a genuine question to have asked since Christians (generally speaking) DO make a bigger deal of homosexuality than they would, for instance, for divorce and remarriage ...even though their professed moral guide (the Bible) CLEARLY condemns the latter. Not so much homosexuality, however. Even Jesus was silent on the matter of homosexuality which is rather surprising since He had ample opportunity to address the issue IF it had been an issue. Jesus was not too shy at addressing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and bringing them to task, at shaking off any criticism when He associated with the 'sinners' of the day, having addressed the question of divorce when asked and responding by saying that anyone who remarries while their former spouse is living is committing adultery. But, as said, no mention of homosexuality. It WOULD have been interesting to hear Jesus' views on homosexuality - maybe He would not have approved - but we'll never know.
The irony is the anger seems to be on your side of the fence. We are insulted and dragged through the mud here simply because we refuse to bow to pressure and accept something that is sinful and unnatural as being natural and normal. You can keep rehashing this old arguments all you want. They have been addressed. Argument from silence is a logical fallacy. Jesus didn't mention homosexuality. So what? He didn't mention bestiality either. He spoke against sexual immorality and that all fails into that category. It would be silly for him to amen this verse Matthew 15:19. Oh and let me just specifically call out homosexuality on the list here. Why would he need to say that when the people of the time followed the Mosaic law which already told them that homosexuality was wrong and unnatural. Jesus defined marriage as being between a man and a woman. No exceptions. If we are going to argue from silence then I can point out that there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that speaks positive or endorses homosexuality and every union is always in context of man and wife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Paul - the new and improved edition of Jesus to many - was either made aware of by others, or perhaps witnessed for himself, the worship practices that were being performed in pagan temples. Indeed, he addresses this in Romans 1, a scripture that has, either by accident or design, become the main 'gay condemning' tool of many conservative Christians. And, this particular scripture has become such a 'darling' of the anti-gay Christian brigade that they are loathe to admit that it does INDEED address pagan cult worship practices and NOT homosexuality as we today define the term 'homosexuality'. I have REPEATEDLY challenged others to present just one Bible text that addresses homosexuality in any other situation than 'idolatry' (or perhaps the intent to rape) but while they continue to condemn homosexuality they remain conveniently oblivious to my challenge.
Even in the context of pagan worship, the verse is still clearly and directly stating that it is unnatural to have same sex desires. It doesn't suddenly become natural once you walk outside the pagan temple.
Furthermore, 1 Timothy 1:8:10 has nothing to do with pagan worship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Why? Well, those who choose to condemn others, for whatever reason, can't stand to have the rug of hatred pulled out from underneath them. They NEED the scriptures that appear to condemn, especially those scriptures that fulfill an inner, personal need to condemn. And, this is what we most often see going on here. Yes, Christians, generally, certainly DO highlight 'the sin' of homosexuality (a normal variant on the continuum of human sexuality) while ignoring the more glaring examples of 'Bible no-nos' within the actual church setting such as divorce and remarriage. As for marriage infidelity ...do any of you ever recall a pastor asking his congregation for a show of hands on that one?
Well divorce and remarriage are more grey areas because Jesus does give permission to divorce under certain circumstances. Sexual sin should be highlighted because it can be damaging physically, emotional and spiritually as well as cause pain and destruction in others. The Bible says it is so bad that we should run, flee from sexual immorality! This is serious stuff. People are going to feel like complete fools weeping on judgement day asking themselves why they sacrificed a close relationship with God in exchange for a few brief decades of physical pleasure.
But also, it's your camp that is doing the highlighting. You don't see divorce pride parades, divorce rainbow colors, turn on the tv and every show promotes and celebrates the divorce lifestyle. We wouldn't be giving it that much notice if it wasn't being thrown in our faces constantly.
I haven't provided any evidence. All I've done is to say repeatedly that the Bible authors would not have had a clue what 'homosexuality' even WAS ...let alone address it. I have also stated many more times than should be necessary that the ONLY reference in the Bible to same gender sex is relative to idolatry and temple prostitution. All one has to do is to read the Bible texts pertaining to same gender sex practices within their appropriate contexts and no further 'evidence' per se is necessary. Just read!
Already addressed. Nonsense.
Yeah, okay.
No, I can't. If it has anything to do with this topic then please tell me.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Again as you can see from above the author of Leviticus did know about homosexuality.
By the way, I'm not angry. The demonstration of your lack of awareness or knowledge on this topic has been purposed to be that way at this time. The resolution to this problem is already also purposed and will occur in DUE time. So don't think I'm angry. As I said before, Christians are called to love everyone.
Regarding the Two Swords being enough, it is a spiritual message. But I appreciate your honesty and admitting you don't know.
I also suggest that you look up all the laws concerning "emissions" that a man may have and see very well that they understood that when a man had an emission that it was a significant event that was not carelessly dealt with. Why do you suppose that it was not carelessly dealt with?
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