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I have presupposed NOTHING. I can read! Romans 1 is describing idolatry and the practices affiliated with it! Romans 1 is NOT referring to homosexuality as we today define the term. Paul might have been a smart cookie for his time and culture but he would have known nothing about human sexuality. You're actually doing an injustice to Paul by exalting him to the level of an all-knowing and righteous deity. I'm sure he would not approve of this as he referred to himself as a wretched man and, indeed, 'the chief of sinners'.
Since it's the word 'hate' that you have an issue with, what word would you prefer as to how the mainstream Christian regards homosexuality? Is it 'love'? If it is then why do you keep bringing up Romans 1 and the Leviticus texts in which to rub their noses? Why are you quoting the Bible to them at all?
Did you just describe yourself? I haven't given my own opinions with reference to this topic. I've stuck with the Bible. And, any prejudices I might have is with regard to those who use the Bible with which to demean other people. Such people irritate me. Is that a fair use of the term 'prejudice', do you think?
Why do you keep using the term 'we' as though you're the all-knowing oracle of the minds of all Christians? Opinions, eh? The FACTS are: It's been the trend for the past several decades for 'the Church' to be in opposition - some militantly so! - to homosexuality, presumably using the Bible as its source. MANY professed Christians have CERTAINLY used the word you appear to dislike - hatred - toward gay people. And, if your name happened to be Matthew Shepard ...you were killed for being gay. Have you been living under a rock, BF, to not be aware of this?
Anyway, as long as the Bible is being used to demean gay people - and it IS! - then I really do believe that 'hatred' is the appropriate English word to use.
Does it matter what I actually say to respond? I've told you over and over again on this very thread that I don't hate anyone, gay or anyone else. And you proceed to tell me I do. That is bigotry. Please just stop this display of bigotry.
Does it matter what I actually say to respond? I've told you over and over again on this very thread that I don't hate anyone, gay or anyone else. And you proceed to tell me I do. That is bigotry. Please just stop this display of bigotry.
This isn't necessarily about you, BaptistFundie. The thread title is "Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins?" The thread title is accurate. How you can still persist that homosexuality has not challenged 'the Church' in recent times and even divided many churches in the process because of its, um, 'animosity' (is that word better?) for homosexuality and homosexuals I really have no idea. Here in Australia, even though gay marriage received a landslide approval vote last year, Christian schools and other organizations are still discriminating against gay students and teachers. And, due to separation of church and state, they're allowed to do so. Gay students can be expelled. Gay teachers can be fired. This situation is being presently looked into by the government.
Yes. Romans 1. It's crystal clear to anyone without a presupposition.
But that's not the point of the bigoted first post. I've told you we don't hate gay people. I don't hate gay people. No Christian I know of hates gay people, but this is now almost 500 pages stating we do.
I'll remind you of the definition of bigotry according to Merriam-Webster: "obstinate or intolerant devotion to one's own opinions and prejudices "
We've told you what we believe but you obstinately and intolerantly persist in believing your own opinion about us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Whether through ignorance or malicious intent, you or I or anyone can't control how others see people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
True, but it is interesting how the bigots continue to dictate to us how we feel, despite us telling them otherwise. When we tell them something is not true about us and they continue to state otherwise, that is a perfect example of bigotry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
No they don't.
Well - you can let them dictate how you feel - but why would you do that? They have been doing this for years. They will continue as God allows them. We can't change them. It is what it is.
Jesus had to deal with the same thing and He definitely did not let others dictate how He felt, or who He was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
I have presupposed NOTHING. I can read! Romans 1 is describing idolatry and the practices affiliated with it! Romans 1 is NOT referring to homosexuality as we today define the term. Paul might have been a smart cookie for his time and culture but he would have known nothing about human sexuality. You're actually doing an injustice to Paul by exalting him to the level of an all-knowing and righteous deity. I'm sure he would not approve of this as he referred to himself as a wretched man and, indeed, 'the chief of sinners'.
Since it's the word 'hate' that you have an issue with, what word would you prefer as to how the mainstream Christian regards homosexuality? Is it 'love'? If it is then why do you keep bringing up Romans 1 and the Leviticus texts in which to rub their noses? Why are you quoting the Bible to them at all?
Did you just describe yourself? I haven't given my own opinions with reference to this topic. I've stuck with the Bible. And, any prejudices I might have is with regard to those who use the Bible with which to demean other people. Such people irritate me. Is that a fair use of the term 'prejudice', do you think?
Why do you keep using the term 'we' as though you're the all-knowing oracle of the minds of all Christians? Opinions, eh? The FACTS are: It's been the trend for the past several decades for 'the Church' to be in opposition - some militantly so! - to homosexuality, presumably using the Bible as its source. MANY professed Christians have CERTAINLY used the word you appear to dislike - hatred - toward gay people. And, if your name happened to be Matthew Shepard ...you were killed for being gay. Have you been living under a rock, BF, to not be aware of this?
Anyway, as long as the Bible is being used to demean gay people - and it IS! - then I really do believe that 'hatred' is the appropriate English word to use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Does it matter what I actually say to respond? I've told you over and over again on this very thread that I don't hate anyone, gay or anyone else. And you proceed to tell me I do. That is bigotry. Please just stop this display of bigotry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
This isn't necessarily about you, BaptistFundie. The thread title is "Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins?" The thread title is accurate. How you can still persist that homosexuality has not challenged 'the Church' in recent times and even divided many churches in the process because of its, um, 'animosity' (is that word better?) for homosexuality and homosexuals I really have no idea. Here in Australia, even though gay marriage received a landslide approval vote last year, Christian schools and other organizations are still discriminating against gay students and teachers. And, due to separation of church and state, they're allowed to do so. Gay students can be expelled. Gay teachers can be fired. This situation is being presently looked into by the government.
Anger is a reaction to something perceived as infringing on a person’s right(s) or their sense of morality.
Often times, the fundamentalists will hide this emotion of anger, under the guise of not hating anyone.
This isn't necessarily about you, BaptistFundie. The thread title is "Why does homosexuality anger conservative Christians more than other sins?" The thread title is accurate. How you can still persist that homosexuality has not challenged 'the Church' in recent times and even divided many churches in the process because of its, um, 'animosity' (is that word better?) for homosexuality and homosexuals I really have no idea. Here in Australia, even though gay marriage received a landslide approval vote last year, Christian schools and other organizations are still discriminating against gay students and teachers. And, due to separation of church and state, they're allowed to do so. Gay students can be expelled. Gay teachers can be fired. This situation is being presently looked into by the government.
You need to establish the idea that conservative Christians are angered by it. Not by you taking their rights away, not by your prejudiced, bigoted remarks...but by homosexuality. You haven't done that. I certainly don't know of any Christian, conservative or liberal that hates, or is angered by homosexuality.
Prove the intent. Prove what they're thinking. Do that and I'll shut up.
You need to establish the idea that conservative Christians are angered by it. Not by you taking their rights away, not by your prejudiced, bigoted remarks...but by homosexuality. You haven't done that. I certainly don't know of any Christian, conservative or liberal that hates, or is angered by homosexuality.
Prove the intent. Prove what they're thinking. Do that and I'll shut up.
How is giving all people equal rights taking other's rights away?
How is giving all people equal rights taking other's rights away?
Not the point. This thread is about Christianity supposedly angering Christians. It's not about the politics of rights and laws. Your question is completely off-topic and irrelevant.
Not the point. This thread is about Christianity supposedly angering Christians. It's not about the politics of rights and laws. Your question is completely off-topic and irrelevant.
Wrong.
My question is absolutely on point. The question is why some Christians get their panties in a knot when it comes to homosexuality, and the key point is, that homosexuals, same as whites, blacks, Asians, First Nations, Inuit, Catholics, Buddhists and what ever other segmentation you can think of, all have the same rights.
Demanding those rights are recognized do not diminish any one else's, including conservative Christians.
No. I don't hate "everything they are", nor do I believe that they shouldn't have rights. To continue to say that is bigotry. If you continue to insist that, I must call you a bigot. You fit the definition precisely.
1. Do you believe they should have a RIGHT to marry?
2. Do you believe they should have a RIGHT to serve as officers in your church?
3: Do you believe they have a RIGHT to not be discriminated against by commercial businesses?
4. Do you believe they have a RIGHT to live in the same apartment building with you?
5. Do you believe they have a RIGHT to be a schoolteacher or daycare center worker.
Answer yes to all these and you aren't a bigot and you don't hate even if you see them as "sinful."
But you can't actually answer these with a "yes" in good conscience. So YES, the world views you as a religious bigot, no different than a Muslim bigot when it comes to homosexuality.
Quote:
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matt. 22:39
If you need to know who your neighbor is, read the story of the Good Samaritan.
You treat this certain group of people differently than you would yourself be treated. That means that no matter how much of a "christian" you are, you don't follow Jesus. And yes, there is a horse hockey load of "christians" who think the same way--showing just how far fundamentalists have taken their churches toward hell.
My question is absolutely on point. The question is why some Christians get their panties in a knot when it comes to homosexuality, and the key point is, that homosexuals, same as whites, blacks, Asians, First Nations, Inuit, Catholics, Buddhists and what ever other segmentation you can think of, all have the same rights.
Demanding those rights are recognized do not diminish any one else's, including conservative Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
1. Do you believe they should have a RIGHT to marry?
2. Do you believe they should have a RIGHT to serve as officers in your church?
3: Do you believe they have a RIGHT to not be discriminated against by commercial businesses?
4. Do you believe they have a RIGHT to live in the same apartment building with you?
5. Do you believe they have a RIGHT to be a schoolteacher or daycare center worker.
Answer yes to all these and you aren't a bigot and you don't hate even if you see them as "sinful."
But you can't actually answer these with a "yes" in good conscience. So YES, the world views you as a religious bigot, no different than a Muslim bigot when it comes to homosexuality.
Matt. 22:39
If you need to know who your neighbor is, read the story of the Good Samaritan.
You treat this certain group of people differently than you would yourself be treated. That means that no matter how much of a "christian" you are, you don't follow Jesus. And yes, there is a horse hockey load of "christians" who think the same way--showing just how far fundamentalists have taken their churches toward hell.
Completely off-topic, irrelevant. Political discussions do not establish the emotion of anger or hate. Your attempts to hijack this thread further is not going to work.
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