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Liar, liar, pants on fire. You have no evidence that is the case. You just bring up your alternate reality over and over.
I have posted it several times. Millennial were the most supportive group, but now less than half of them are comfortable with LGBT. This study was done by GLAAD, so feel free to reject the results.
The young are regarded as the most tolerant generation. That's why results of this LGBTQ survey are 'alarming'
The number of Americans 18 to 34 who are comfortable interacting with LGBTQ people slipped from 53% in 2017 to 45% in 2018 – the only age group to show a decline, according to the annual Accelerating Acceptance report. And that is down from 63% in 2016.
Is your goal to get gays accept gays? Common sense suggest that is a stupid goal.
The support for LGBT cause among non-gays is plummeting, because of the anger, lies and intolerance coming from people like you.
I never received such PMs either. I guess that is supposed to mean something.......
Common sense also suggests that discriminating against people because of who they are attracted to is quite stupid. MUCH more stupid than trying to get ignorant people to learn and grow, although some are obviously too low IQ to do so.
--evangelical ethicist David Gushee at Mercer University wrote the book “Changing Our Mind,” about his own theological shift — on questions of gay marriage and welcoming gays and lesbians into church leadership.
On April 8, 2014, Scott McQueen, a Southern Baptist pastor of 31 years, along with his family, met their greatest challenge when their youngest child publically admitted that he was gay.
In 2001, Kathy Baldock, a straight conservative evangelical Christian, met Netto Montoya, a lesbian Native American, on the local hiking trails near her home in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. Their friendship challenged Baldocks cultural and religious beliefs about gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people.In Walking the Bridgeless Canyon: Repairing the Breach between the Church and the LGBT Community, Baldock uncovers the historical, cultural, medical, and political filters of discrimination through which the LGBT community is seen.
ah, and Chris Kratzer, another former evangelical pastor and author of Leatherbound Terrorism has questions to ask of the Finnie's and jeffie's of the world:
Quote:
You want to convince the world that your brand of faith is the only way, truth, and life.
Yet, with all due respect and love, from where I sit, there seems to be no line of integrity you aren’t willing to cross, no fact you aren’t willing to overlook, and no example and mandate of Jesus you aren’t willing to dismiss.
I want to believe otherwise, but when I put two eyeballs upon what’s in front of me, [b]I find it increasingly hard not to believe that you have, in fact, become a force in opposition to the Kingdom instead a bearer of it. Perhaps, you don’t realize the evil in which you participate nor the diabolical system of faith to which you subscribe. I keep hoping to hear your fierce denouncements of what conservative Christianity has largely become–spiritually, morally, and politically. Yet, much of what I experience from you feels like a calculated silence coupled with a callous ambivalence, as if all you care about is religious power and privilege.
I can understand succumbing to the seductive deceptions of Christian conservatism, for I too was once held captive by the tractor beams of the conservative Evangelical Death Star. Yet, how much revelation is it going to take before the religious scales fall from your eyes?
--------------
Truth be told, when you pull back the curtain, conservative Evangelicalism is the fake news press corps that threatens our nation and planet, misrepresenting and mischaracterizing the true God who is Love and whose true message is Grace. Yet sadly, conservative Evangelicalism and its system of belief have long been gutting God of Her goodness and humanity of its beauty, luring people into a life that is no life at all, a cure that is, in fact, the poison, and a faith that only makes you better at faking it. In fact, weaponizing the Scriptures with a leatherbound terrorism, conservative Evangelicalism is, by far, the most pressing evil being wielded upon the earth. For with a fake god proclaiming a fake gospel, you can spiritual justify anything.
I have posted it several times. Millennial were the most supportive group, but now less than half of them are comfortable with LGBT. This study was done by GLAAD, so feel free to reject the results.
The young are regarded as the most tolerant generation. That's why results of this LGBTQ survey are 'alarming'
The number of Americans 18 to 34 who are comfortable interacting with LGBTQ people slipped from 53% in 2017 to 45% in 2018 – the only age group to show a decline, according to the annual Accelerating Acceptance report. And that is down from 63% in 2016.
Polls are often wrong. Ask Hillary Clinton.
And just as Nazis began winning over people, doesn't mean Jesus followers should halt supporting LGBTQ people.
Got a bunch of examples of "liberal" pastors rejecting their upbringing and education to become "evangelical bigots?"
Yes that is exactly what those anti LBGT posters do, I tried to show Jeff how wrong it is to accuse all members of a group with what one member does but he jumped to the wrong conclusion and falsely accused me of saying that he wanted all gays put to death. From my readings of pisters, certain members seem to view the very existence of any acceptance of LBGT folks is a direct affront and a literal threat to their religion. And that the more miserable they can make your life the sooner you will quite your rebellion and become heterosexual.
It is very sad for both you and those posters that they fail to be able to see you as a person or as an individual.
After the fight for my own identity, it can be painful to not be seen as an individual.
Wow, so many absolute statements that are completely off base, no need to even go there.
Translation - copout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
Of course death threats are abominable. There are nut jobs on the extremities of any debate. Are you coming online and denouncing Westboro Baptist and their horrible antics? They are the face of your church to many out there. That some lost people on the liberal side of this debate do abominable actions like death threats is not to be defended. Yet the pastor in Tennessee is doing the same thing... and he is supposed to be a Christian. How much more horrible is that? That argument doesn't hold water when so called Christians are doing the same thing back.
Westboro is a tiny church that shares very little in common with other evangelical churches. They are not the face. By pointing them out and making a big deal of them, you are actually giving them just what they want. ATTENTION. Yes, that's right, you are actually helping their cause instead of just ignoring them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
I know many well adjusted gay people. I know many heterosexuals with messed up lives. The time someone's sexuality seems to affect them most often is like my friend I mentioned previously..... trying to reconcile what he cannot change about himself with worry about the inevitable rejection from the church and family.
Many people thought Robin Williams was a well adjusted happy guy who had much to live for. Despite the love of thousands of fans, he still felt so miserable in life that he ended it. The point is how do you know for sure they are well adjusted gay people? They could be miserable internally and just putting on a good show. In fact, I wonder if gay people are too afraid of backlash from their own community if they dare come out and tell people that it's not all rainbows and happiness after gay marriage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
This is the primary reason I have come on to this page and explored the discussion. We, the evangelical church, have missed the mark on this subject and we will be judged by it. We are treating this slice of humanity much more harshly and cruelly and with much more condemnation than the bible in it's full gospel message tells us to do.
I don't know of an evangelical church that would have no problem with a member openly living in any kind of sin. Your beliefs are pretty warped from traditional Christian. Why should Christ even bother to die for our sins if all you need is love? We, the evangelical church are called to love all people regardless of their actions. But that doesn't mean we should endorse or accept their sinful actions either. Consel and instruction should given out love to guide a person off the path of sin. If they refuse to change then the church has no choice but to cut out the cancer before it rots the entire body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
We have become the pharisees that Jesus called a brood of vipers and tombstones full of dead men's bones. We are the ones I see him coming into the temple turning over tables and cracking a whip. I used to think I was the good one and it was "them" he was coming after. I fear and tremble that I am instead aligned with ones that angered Jesus the most.
Enough of a response to you.... signed, your friendly wolf.
Well then, Jesus was angry at sin then, right? He saw into their hearts and knew they only gave lip service to God. OTOH, my heart and the ones of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ are tuned to the holy spirit and have a tremendous desire to love all people, including gays. Because we don't define someone by their sexual desires.
And how! Prior to the recent government election here in Australia the polls had Labor (headed by Bill Shorten) romping home to a landslide victory. It was generally seen to be a cinch that Shorten would become Australia's next Prime Minister. Little to no doubt at all! Every poll had the Labor/Shorten team way in front of the Liberal party headed by Scott Morrison or 'ScoMo' as he's referred to in casual conversation. The polls had spoken.
HOWEVER, the polls turned out to be not just inaccurate but seriously inaccurate! Labor lost big time! Poor Bill and the Labor supporters were in shock with the totally unexpected results . . .as were the Morrison/Liberal Party who were expected to lose! Plenty of 'shock' to go around!
I've always been skeptical of polls as they appear to change daily, apparently dependent upon the whim of whoever it is who is being polled and the particular question/s asked of them. As far as I'm concerned they are nameless, faceless people (on both sides of the poll) and I therefore have no idea how trustworthy they are. There is also often an agenda behind a poll and a result can often be manipulated.
Anyway, the recent polling undertaken here in Australia should make ALL of us skeptical about future polls ...no kidding!
Westboro is a tiny church that shares very little in common with other evangelical churches. They are not the face. By pointing them out and making a big deal of them, you are actually giving them just what they want. ATTENTION. Yes, that's right, you are actually helping their cause instead of just ignoring them.
His posts don't make sense since he says he is evangelical Christian, but says Westboro Baptists are the face of the evangelicals, and for whatever reason he chooses to stay. Westboro Baptists is a <<church>> and in no way represent evangelical Christians. As a matter of fact they hate evangelicals as much as some of the more hostile posters here.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-02-2019 at 07:29 AM..
Reason: We don't call churches "cults."
Westboro is a tiny church that shares very little in common with other evangelical churches. They are not the face. By pointing them out and making a big deal of them, you are actually giving them just what they want. ATTENTION. Yes, that's right, you are actually helping their cause instead of just ignoring them.
Many people thought Robin Williams was a well adjusted happy guy who had much to live for. Despite the love of thousands of fans, he still felt so miserable in life that he ended it. The point is how do you know for sure they are well adjusted gay people? They could be miserable internally and just putting on a good show. In fact, I wonder if gay people are too afraid of backlash from their own community if they dare come out and tell people that it's not all rainbows and happiness after gay marriage.
I don't know of an evangelical church that would have no problem with a member openly living in any kind of sin. Your beliefs are pretty warped from traditional Christian. Why should Christ even bother to die for our sins if all you need is love? We, the evangelical church are called to love all people regardless of their actions. But that doesn't mean we should endorse or accept their sinful actions either. Consel and instruction should given out love to guide a person off the path of sin. If they refuse to change then the church has no choice but to cut out the cancer before it rots the entire body.
Well then, Jesus was angry at sin then, right? He saw into their hearts and knew they only gave lip service to God. OTOH, my heart and the ones of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ are tuned to the holy spirit and have a tremendous desire to love all people, including gays. Because we don't define someone by their sexual desires.
Jeff, it is not all rainbows and happiness in a straight marrage either. I think that anyone who has been married for any length of time will tell you that. Marrage is always a work in progress but we'll worth the effort. Do you have any evidence that SSM are held together by pressure from other gays? Have you bothered to even ask some same sex couple?. Your wording casts doubts on the lasting ability of SSM but you offer no evidence to back your wondering. And love and marriage go well beyond sexual desires. You limit homosexuality to just sexual desires and lust and refuse to accept that their love can be just as non sexual as heterosexuals.
How can you claim to love everyone when you cast unfounded claims against all homosexuals for the actions of unidentifiable others? How can you love posters like geekigurl when you disparage her and claim that it is not her personally but then go o to claim that all gays have the agenda of bullying Christians and each other? And you have in the past compared homosexuality to beastility and pedophilia and now it is a cancer upon your religion. Jeff, they are people, individuals or persons and should be treated as such.
And Robin Williams illness cause depression is just as valid about married evangelicals as married gays. Or every member of your own church. Using the suicide of a heterosexual man to cast doubt on the marriages of homosexuals is way over the top and shows a total lack 9f caring, love, respect or emphathy towards them, or even Robin Williams.
His posts don't make sense since he says he is evangelical Christian, but says Westboro Baptists are the face of the evangelicals, and for whatever reason he chooses to stay. Westboro Baptists is a <<church>> and in no way represent evangelical Christians. As a matter of fact they hate evangelicals as much as some of the more hostile posters here.
The Westboro Baptists are just a very, tiny group of people, mostly family members.
They don't represent Baptist, Christians or Evangelicals. They are just a tiny group of people that get a lot of media attention. Some people mistakenly believe they are a large denomination. They're not.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-02-2019 at 07:30 AM..
Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Changing views of Evangelical pastors and leaders
