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No, you just compare gays to pedophiles and doggie-humpers.
The inside of your head is a scary place to glimpse. Sorry you have to live there.
I believe homosexual activity is sexual immorality and perversion of God's design. I also believe bestiality and pedophilia is sexual immorality and perversion of God's design. The only thing that is comparable is that they are all forms of sexual immorality. Now if you want to take it further and claim I'm saying gays are just as bad as the other forms then you are lying. Which wouldn't be surprising coming from you.
I have hitched my wagon to the full measure of scripture and the ministry of Jesus to a lost world. That I choose to love homosexuals and not condemn them and seek to make room for them in the church, and since that has aligned me in this particular argument with Christians of different stripes as well as non church going non Christians both gay and straight, who despite the diversity of beliefs (and even lack of belief) are exemplifying the love of Christ moreso than some who bear his name in their belief system.... well, yes, I am guilty.
This comes off as pedestal posturing to make us look bad by comparison. Let's put it to the test. Let's say Jared Fogle (you know, the Subway guy who is a pedophile) or Josh Duggar comes to your church. Do you welcome them with open arms, make room for them at church? Yes? That's awesome. But what if they said they had not changed their ways and fully intended to keep doing such acts? Still want to let them become a member of the church? See that's the dangerous line you are flirting with it. You act like we have to embrace and let them know it's ok to continue in a destructive sinful lifestyle or else we can't possibly love them. I was involved in prison ministry. I saw God's transforming power and loved those men as Christian brothers. But the difference is that they turned away from their old life and repented. Jesus taught love, but He also taught repentance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
So, that settled, and bearing in mind that I gave you an olive branch in my mention of you above that you weren't being nasty and mean like Finn.... Do you like Finn's slamming of Jerwade?
Finn is only stating what is the law. There was no personal attack from what I saw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
No, I don't like nasty confrontations. I don't like throwing the Nazi or Commie or an other broad label brush stroke accusations around. I haven't done that. I called Finn mean and nasty in the way he treated Jerwade, yes. Because it was mean and nasty. So. You coming alongside Finn here and want to agree that Jerwade should be on a sex offenders list at the least and in jail at the worst? Cause that is the maligning that's been done to him.
I don't see anyone here myself included claiming that he is a criminal and sex offender other than from a legal argument. The real point is the moral argument. And I don't think morally kids should be having sex with each other. This all stemmed from Romulus trying to make us look shameful by posting some sob story about a very young boy who said he was gay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
I think you guys don't like me cause I am from your own branch of Christianity and know the scripture. And the words of Jesus pierce the callousness that legalism and adherence to the law has given you. Puts you at odds with the gospel of Christ. The leaven of the Pharisees... Jesus didn't like that. So you lump me with the rest to deaden the fact that the gospel is shining a light on darkness in you.
If you knew the scripture then you would not have stayed quiet while your friends challenged the Word of God on the very basic principle of Christ fulfilling the OT. You are supporting people who claim that if we believe in the Bible, we have to accept that we are suppose to execute gay people. I really don't see how it is possible for you to straddle both sides of the fence here.
In Virginia it is lawful for underage persons to have sex amongst themselves. Lawful means legal. Same as in Canada , it is legal as in not illegal for underage persons to have sex amongst themselves. I had originally stated that California was one of the many states not to have this law. Google Romeo and Juliette laws Virginia and you can read for yourself that it states it is lawful.
You have claimed that people under a certain age cannot consent to having sex and therefore 8t is always statutory rape. I showed that in both Canada and in at least one state that is a false statement. You continue to deny that yours was a false ststement.
It is not my claim, it is the law.
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And now you have called me a loser twice for disagreeing with you. I like facts that are complete and not cherry picked. I am not going to check out each state as this is not important to me, I am way past being underage. But your statement that under the age of consent sex is always statutory rape is false and you refuse to admit it. I never accused you of lying about Arizona and will admit that I don't remember that it was the state being discussed earlier. But until you read and either admit or correct the law about Virginia you are being untruthful about the law.
No, I didn't. I said ad hominem attacks is a loser approach. Trust me, you don't want to look like Warden, trout dude or the Saintmark, who has revealed his true colors.
Same applies in Virginia.
Romeo and Juliet laws do not make it legal, but it can reduce, or eliminate the punishment. I gave you a link to legal definitions, which explains Romeo and Juliet laws. Why can't you just read it?
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Virginia has a close-in-age exemption. A close in age exemption, also known as "Romeo and Juliet law", is designed to prevent the prosecution of underage couples who engage in consensual sex when both participants are significantly close in age to each other, and one or both are below the age of consent.
Depending on the situation, the Virginia close-in-age exemption may completely exempt qualifying close-in-age couples from the age of consent law, or merely provide a legal defence that can be used in the event of prosecution.
Romeo And Juliet Law Law and Legal Definition
https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/romeo-and-juliet-law/
Teenage couples before either participant has reached the age of consent, or after one has but the other has not, may engage in consensual sexual conduct as part of an intimate relationship. In such cases, the older of the two participants is technically guilty of rape as any consent between partners, even if freely given, does not meet the standard of law as it is given by a minor. "Romeo and Juliet" laws, serve to reduce or eliminate the penalty of the crime in cases where the couple's age difference is minor and the sexual contact is only considered rape because of the lack of legally-recognized consent.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-09-2019 at 08:15 PM..
So, that settled, and bearing in mind that I gave you an olive branch in my mention of you above that you weren't being nasty and mean like Finn.... Do you like Finn's slamming of Jerwade?
Give it a rest. No one is slamming Jerwade. I specifically said it is not my place to judge him, and I have told you this three times already, and you continue to spew this nonsense, which you know is not true. It is ironic that you speak about love and then bear false witness in the same post.
The conversation is not about Jerwade, although you are trying hard to make it about him. The discussion is about the laws of the land, and his initial comment only gave the spark to the debate.
Quote:
You coming alongside Finn here and want to agree that Jerwade should be on a sex offenders list at the least and in jail at the worst?
No one said he should be on a list, or in jail. You need to stop with these fake accusations.
You say you don't call people nazis, but it is just as bad when you call people nasty based on false accusation.
If you are trying invoke some kind of angry response, you are wasting your time. All you managed to do is reveal that you are the accuser of the brethren. You have blown your cover.
Thank you Lord for the armor of God, which is able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-09-2019 at 08:39 PM..
This comes off as pedestal posturing to make us look bad by comparison. Let's put it to the test. Let's say Jared Fogle (you know, the Subway guy who is a pedophile) or Josh Duggar comes to your church. Do you welcome them with open arms, make room for them at church? Yes? That's awesome. But what if they said they had not changed their ways and fully intended to keep doing such acts? Still want to let them become a member of the church? See that's the dangerous line you are flirting with it. You act like we have to embrace and let them know it's ok to continue in a destructive sinful lifestyle or else we can't possibly love them. I was involved in prison ministry. I saw God's transforming power and loved those men as Christian brothers. But the difference is that they turned away from their old life and repented. Jesus taught love, but He also taught repentance.
Finn is only stating what is the law. There was no personal attack from what I saw.
I don't see anyone here myself included claiming that he is a criminal and sex offender other than from a legal argument. The real point is the moral argument. And I don't think morally kids should be having sex with each other. This all stemmed from Romulus trying to make us look shameful by posting some sob story about a very young boy who said he was gay.
If you knew the scripture then you would not have stayed quiet while your friends challenged the Word of God on the very basic principle of Christ fulfilling the OT. You are supporting people who claim that if we believe in the Bible, we have to accept that we are suppose to execute gay people. I really don't see how it is possible for you to straddle both sides of the fence here.
Jeff, this is the most real thing you have posted here and I thank you for it.
If I am straddling a fence it is to love the ones that have felt marginalized by the church. My 35 year friendship with my dear college brother has changed how I see the church and their response. He did absolutely EVERYTHING he could to be rid of same sex desires. Everything. Teen Challenge Ex-Gay boot camp. Gave up his job, everything to go live in this intense environment to be rid of homosexual tendencies. Went to charismatic/pentecostal healing services. Had more than one faith healer pray the gay demons off of him. Got filled with the spirit, prayed in tongues. Would wake up before dawn and quote scriptures to memory and pray in tongues and english and lie prostrate before his little prayer room altar and give his heart mind and flesh to the Lord to rebuild him from the inside out.
This wasn't a season. This was a good ten years.
He left the 6 month boot camp and went straight to Atlanta to a gay bar and home with a guy.
I have wept with him and prayed with him, we opened our home to him in the darkest of days.
He finally came to me and told me I probably wouldn't agree with him but he had come to a peace between him and the Lord and he no longer feared going to judgment day. He said he will stand before the Lord gay and the Lord was okay with him in that.
Who am I to tell him he is wrong? He has studied these verses in depth. The clobber verses as some here have called them. He gave me his on study and it aligns with much of what people have shared here. He has wrestled with God over this and walks with a Jacob limp over it and is a finer man of God than any I know.
And he is gay.
This changed my narrower way of thinking, the same that you share above. Because it is more than words in a book. It is Spirit and Word and Life and Flesh all mixed with years of love and walking together through the worst that life can throw you and the joy of small victories here and there. Jesus is alive with this man. Jesus is pleased with this man. And the man I was changed. Changed to love. And saw the response of the church to him that was ugly and mean spirited and harsh and unlike Jesus in many ways. And I like the Jesus in him more than the ugly I saw.
I don't want to be that version of the church anymore. Maybe I'll face judgment day and be wrong. But I don't think so. If I err, I will err in love. If I have to have a home group that these kinds of people will be accepted and that be my church cause the ones worried about membership and paying the staff salaries and paying the mortgage on the sanctuary.... well, you can keep that church. Cause that institutionalized church is the one that rejects because they don't want to lose tithing members that keep the institution afloat. I'll have church at home with the least of these. That will be church for me.
I can't go to a church that tells anyone they aren't welcome. Never again. Come as you are.
I specifically said it is not my place to judge him, and I have told you this three times already, and you continue to spew this nonsense, which you know is not true. It is ironic that you speak about love and then bear false witness in the same post.
The conversation is not about Jerwade, although you are trying hard to make it about him. The discussion is about the laws of the land, and his initial comment only gave the spark to the debate.
No one said he should be on a list, or in jail. You need to stop with these fake accusations.
Of course you know, as well as others on this forum that to communicate an idea or feeling does not require saying it directly?
Can you show someone calling people abominations? You might find only one post, and it from Warden where he calls other posters abominations.
You steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that your god, the bible, states that homosexuals are abominations. You can't deny it, because then you open your idiotic beliefs up to be questioned. You won't admit it does, because then you reveal yourself as an abomination.
The lies liars have to tell themselves in order to maintain a self-image that everyone else sees is actually akin to:
Our racist forefathers,
The greatest and most dangerous dictator of the twentieth century,
The anti-women warfare for equality meaning young women today, like our world winning soccer team, must still fight for equal pay, let alone equality in the pulpit and church administration (the National Women's Party, in 1923, proposed an amendment to the Constitution that prohibited all discrimination on the basis of sex. The so-called Equal Rights Amendment has never been ratified) https://www.history.com/topics/women...omens-suffrage
But being an abomination is a life choice by you, Finn, and there are reparative therapy sessions to help you escape fundamentalism.
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