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But I feel like in many ways being Christian is almost defined as being intellectually dishonest and certainly willfully ignorant.
The topic of gays and lesbians has probably been one of the biggest factors in religion so quickly becoming an afterthought and suspect to so many people in our country. I feel if Christianity had been ahead of the curve and changed to accept gays and lesbian as a normal part of society - which most people these days realize they are - they wouldn't have such a massive outflow of young people who realize how negative and wrong religion can be. That factor of religion being against gays and lesbians has REALLY woken a lot of people up to the inherent flaws of religions.
I'm always curious if very religious people are that way because their brains are already set up to make them vulnerable to fall into the trap of organized religion, or if deep down they probably know the truth to a degree, but they've already invested so much into their beliefs and gone so far defending it that they just can't afford to pull themselves out of it all.
I've met many formerly religious people who at some point had an awakening and realization of what they were involved in and what a scam its turned into. They're perfectly happy and well rounded people as they come out on the other side.
The people who stay religious these days seem to have to "double down" on it more and more as religion as a whole loses its hold on Americans in general. They're almost fighting now and are very upset and on the defensive as it gets more and more acceptable to speak out and call out religion on the truths of the matter and its hypocritical morals and messages.
It's all moving at different rates in different areas of the country and with different age groups. In some regions and a large number of the biggest metro areas in the country I feel religion has already moved to the side, it's been marginalized and just seen as groups some people are involved with - but it's not really talked about in public or strongly mainstream. I am in Chicago and I never hear anyone say a thing about religion, haven't for years.
As time moves on and that becomes more normal I expect the pushback and anger from those who are religious to intensify for the next few years or even a decade or two - but one would have to imagine after that religious people who be pushed to the margins of society, the truly devote who will be seen as almost crazy or cultish.
Excellent point. Many of us already see fundamentalism as both cultish and crazy. Look at how many think sexual attraction is a choice despite scientific evidence to the contrary.
Mockery is the main tool in the wheelhouse of the intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant.
Mockery is probably not an effective tool but it's tempting for the 'not perfect' person to resort to when faced with the consistent 'intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant'.
Science doesn’t change in order to support political opinions--and never doubt for a moment that the "sinfulness" of gays is as much a political opinion as a religious one.
Scientific beliefs change as we gain new information, and sometimes science tells us things that we would rather not hear. And in recent decades fundamentalists have been overwhelmed with scientific and archaeological evidence that disputes their caveman assumptions.
1. Their speculation that "gayness" is a choice (choosing to engage in homosexual activity IS a choice, just as heterosexual activity is a choice, yet choosing not to engage in homosexuality does NOT equate to no longer being gay any more than choosing NOT to drink makes an alcoholic no longer an alcoholic.
2. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls sank into the sea the fundamentalist postulate that the Bible in it's original manuscripts is infallible and inerrant. There are stunningly remarkable differences from what our current English Bibles have in them from what the much, much older OT manuscripts have in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
3. Archaeology has discovered many of the "cities" (read towns and villages) described as "wiped" out in the OT never suffered any kind of traumatic event. People just moved on.
4. The study of religious history has determined that the "creation" of our Bible was essentially an editorial decision in the fourth century.
5. Biology has discovered that there are over 1500 species of animals, birds, reptiles, insects, and even fish that have a homosexual element forever destroying the "theory" that homosexuality is not "natural."
6. Linguistic studies have determined that the English Bibles we use today are mistranslated from their original meaning. The word "abomination" is not even close to what the Hebrew word toevah means. The English "abomination" means abhorrent, loathsome, unspeakably bad. Toevah means ritually unclean. Eating pork is toevah; having sex with a menstruating woman is toevah.
In other words, fundamentalism is a throwback to the caveman era. It's not even true religion, it is more Jim Jones oriented in that you are "dead" if you believe science over their caveman assumptions.
If it is subconscious, then you didn't make a decision, therefore no "choice" was made. Your continued ignorance doesn't change that.
Take my husband, for example. We have had in depth talks about sexuality, obviously (especially since he knows of my past), and I know that he absolutely, 100%, does not find a single male attractive. Never has, and never will. He isn't wired that way. He also does not find girls with bleached hair attractive. Same goes for women with big butts, fake boobs, and short hair. He can't "choose" to suddenly find these people attractive.
Do you honestly believe he could? Are you honestly saying that you could, right now at this very moment, just decide to be gay, and find only men attractive?
I couldn't agree more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Indeed. In my entire life, the sight of naked men was never attractive, quite the opposite to me, in fact.
Exactly, Mystic. I suspect these people know that, deep down, but will never admit as much, because it would challenge what they have been told their whole lives.
Mockery is probably not an effective tool but it's tempting for the 'not perfect' person to resort to when faced with the consistent 'intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant'.
Which only means you can't objectively look at the situation without having your judgement clouded by emotions. Otherwise, you would realize that such comments only drive a wedge further from convincing people that you are right and just walk away.
But I feel like in many ways being Christian is almost defined as being intellectually dishonest and certainly willfully ignorant.
The topic of gays and lesbians has probably been one of the biggest factors in religion so quickly becoming an afterthought and suspect to so many people in our country. I feel if Christianity had been ahead of the curve and changed to accept gays and lesbian as a normal part of society - which most people these days realize they are - they wouldn't have such a massive outflow of young people who realize how negative and wrong religion can be. That factor of religion being against gays and lesbians has REALLY woken a lot of people up to the inherent flaws of religions.
I'm always curious if very religious people are that way because their brains are already set up to make them vulnerable to fall into the trap of organized religion, or if deep down they probably know the truth to a degree, but they've already invested so much into their beliefs and gone so far defending it that they just can't afford to pull themselves out of it all.
I've met many formerly religious people who at some point had an awakening and realization of what they were involved in and what a scam its turned into. They're perfectly happy and well rounded people as they come out on the other side.
The people who stay religious these days seem to have to "double down" on it more and more as religion as a whole loses its hold on Americans in general. They're almost fighting now and are very upset and on the defensive as it gets more and more acceptable to speak out and call out religion on the truths of the matter and its hypocritical morals and messages.
It's all moving at different rates in different areas of the country and with different age groups. In some regions and a large number of the biggest metro areas in the country I feel religion has already moved to the side, it's been marginalized and just seen as groups some people are involved with - but it's not really talked about in public or strongly mainstream. I am in Chicago and I never hear anyone say a thing about religion, haven't for years.
As time moves on and that becomes more normal I expect the pushback and anger from those who are religious to intensify for the next few years or even a decade or two - but one would have to imagine after that religious people who be pushed to the margins of society, the truly devote who will be seen as almost crazy or cultish.
People have predicted the demise of Christians since the Roman days. We are not going away. And the very foundation of Christianity is that God does not change. He doesn't get hip with the times and decide sin is no longer sin. If Christians are feeling the need to change their morals to adapt to society then they are greatly deceived as the Bible plainly says that the world will hate us.
Furthermore, if you look at the countries that embrace gay marriage many years ago, little has changed. Gay people are still bullied there and suicide remains a problem. That doesn't sound like society being very accepting.
Quote:
In recent years, however, a number of developments have taken place which rather contradict this image of complete acceptance. Hostility towards homosexuality is common in schools, making life more difficult for homosexual teachers and pupils than for their heterosexual counterparts. Gays and lesbians are not infrequently insulted in the streets or even physically assaulted; in some neighbourhoods their lives are made a misery, and in orthodox religious circles homosexuality is regarded as a sin.
If Christians are feeling the need to change their morals to adapt to society then they are greatly deceived as the Bible plainly says that the world will hate us.
I consider extreme fundamentalists to be fanatics, not followers of Christ.
And that self-righteous persecution card doesn't hold an ounce of water.
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Look at how many think sexual attraction is a choice despite scientific evidence to the contrary.
