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The problem with the bible is that it's mostly fabricated in the aftermath of the fall of Rome, and not necessarily attributable to the word of Jesus or to actual events. To be so literal and to take out passages as some sort of direct message from God is completely misleading you and no different than Islamic militants quoting the Koran to justify whatever they're doing. You would be better advised to view the bible more as a general guideline than a set of specific messages which it clearly cannot be
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Another skeptic with an opinion.
Perhaps, or might the be a believer with insight and understanding? Besides, having the courage to QUESTION is how mere mortals find answers...
Then again, some truly are so clueless that they readily BELIEVE anything, no matter if it makes sense or not all under the guise that god-in-the-tiny-box-of impotence would never allow me to belive a lie..
Evangelicals MUST remember that what they say to justify their point of view, others out side the box say the same when justifying their beliefs.
- †. Matt 13:42 . . there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church; and was eventually enrolled in catechism where I completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Although catechism did a good job of instilling within me the reality of hell's eternal fires; it wasn't until I saw a painting by Gustave Doré depicting a scene from Dante Alighieri's Inferno that I realized the degree of despair gripping the minds and hearts of people in hell.
People down there know it's permanent; that's what makes hell so much worse than any other source of misery one can possibly imagine. If only they could see a light at the end of the tunnel; but that's just it: there is no end of the tunnel; it's like a Gerbil exercise wheel; within which the little rodents get nowhere.
They say hope springs eternal in the human heart. Well; not down below. No; down there hope is futile. The fires are bad enough; but it's the permanence of hell that I would imagine hurts the most.
Perhaps, or might the be a believer with insight and understanding? Besides, having the courage to QUESTION is how mere mortals find answers...
Then again, some truly are so clueless that they readily BELIEVE anything, no matter if it makes sense or not all under the guise that god-in-the-tiny-box-of impotence would never allow me to belive a lie..
Evangelicals MUST remember that what they say to justify their point of view, others out side the box say the same when justifying their beliefs.
A believer with insight does not deny that the Bible is the word of God.
look at it more as the "gist of God" and you'll be on the better track
I recognize the Bible to be the word of God. Through out human history God has communicated His word in various ways. Through Theophanies, through angels, through prophets, through dreams and visions, through Jesus Christ who Himself is God (the Second Person of the Trinity), through apostles, and through the written word, both Old and New Testaments whose human authors are the prophets and apostles and those closely associated with the apostles. Under divine guidance they set down in writing, not by means of dictation (although in some cases dictation was involved), but using their own vocabulary and writing style and frame of reference, all that God wanted to be recorded.
The Bible is no less the word of God then are any of the other means by which God has communicated His word to man.
Last edited by Michael Way; 03-16-2016 at 07:36 AM..
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I sometimes wish there were tour buses to hell so people could see what's in store for them down there; and not only the degree of suffering that people can expect in the next life, but also hell's impact upon the human mind.
People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ, but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000 years ago. Whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been down in the netherworld all this time.
It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years. I've been on the Earth for just 71, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know; when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom.
But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like Lindsay Lohan expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary tour of duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as perpetual residents; they're in a rut.
They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the pain and discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.
In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.
In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation, and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable, altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? Can people in hell really be expected to turn the other cheek? Don't count on it. Hell is a penal colony.
And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, yelps, howls, and gnashing teeth. Conditions are really bad, and everyone is sad, blue, and lonely. After a few years of the conditions I'm describing, I should think most folks break, and go mad from the stress.
But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.
People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.
Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.
No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram,no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.
No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens of hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack of pets and vegetation in hell is the absence of fleas and allergies. I suppose you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to everything I guess; even to that place.
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I sometimes wish there were tour buses to hell so people could see what's in store for them down there; and not only the degree of suffering that people can expect in the next life, but also hell's impact upon the human mind.
People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ, but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000 years ago. Whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been down in the netherworld all this time.
It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years. I've been on the Earth for just 71, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know; when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom.
But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like Lindsay Lohan expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary tour of duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as perpetual residents; they're in a rut.
They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the pain and discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.
In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.
In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation, and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable, altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? Can people in hell really be expected to turn the other cheek? Don't count on it. Hell is a penal colony.
And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, yelps, howls, and gnashing teeth. Conditions are really bad, and everyone is sad, blue, and lonely. After a few years of the conditions I'm describing, I should think most folks break, and go mad from the stress.
But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.
People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.
Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.
No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram,no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.
No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens of hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack of pets and vegetation in hell is the absence of fleas and allergies. I suppose you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to everything I guess; even to that place.
The problem with the bible is that it's mostly fabricated in the aftermath of the fall of Rome, and not necessarily attributable to the word of Jesus or to actual events.
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It's commonly believed that heaven is sort of like the peak of a high mountain. All around the periphery of the mountain are numerous roads all leading to the top. In other words: no matter which road you take; the destination is the same.
But according to traditional Christianity; there aren't many roads to the top: there's only one; all the rest are dead ends, loops, drop-offs, and cul-de-sacs. If traditional Christianity is right; then an awful lot of non Christian people are facing a very unpleasant future.
If those figures are in the ball park, and if traditional Christianity is the truth; then at the least 62% of the earth's current population of 7.312 billion people is on a road to hell; and no doubt some of those are people we know: our friends, our loved ones, and our associates.
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So who's on the right road? What's "traditional Christianity"? Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy or Protestantism (which denominations of Protestantism). These are ALL different roads. If there is only one road, there are even fewer people on it than you think. Maybe you're not even on it!
-
I sometimes wish there were tour buses to hell so people could see what's in store for them down there; and not only the degree of suffering that people can expect in the next life, but also hell's impact upon the human mind.
People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ, but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000 years ago. Whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been down in the netherworld all this time.
It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years. I've been on the Earth for just 71, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know; when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom.
But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like Lindsay Lohan expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary tour of duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as perpetual residents; they're in a rut.
They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the pain and discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.
In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.
In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation, and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable, altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? Can people in hell really be expected to turn the other cheek? Don't count on it. Hell is a penal colony.
And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, yelps, howls, and gnashing teeth. Conditions are really bad, and everyone is sad, blue, and lonely. After a few years of the conditions I'm describing, I should think most folks break, and go mad from the stress.
But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.
People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.
Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.
No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram,no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.
No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens of hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack of pets and vegetation in hell is the absence of fleas and allergies. I suppose you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to everything I guess; even to that place.
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Just to be fair... most of that stuff will not be in heaven either.
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