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Nah you're teaching interpretations and your doctrine. You are not saying anything I have not already heard before, researched in the Bible and rejected.
Adam and Eve were just as sinless as Jesus before they rebelled. Therefore Eve's purity would have overwritten Adam's sin contributing DNA. Sin is not stronger than holiness.
You know that, how? Because I can give you numerous passages all stating we are sinners. Psalm 51:5, Eph 2, Romans 3:23, Romans 3:10-11....
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All the scriptures you're showing are speaking of people after the fact both A&E sinned. There is also no scripture that says 'sin is past from only the father'. Genetics proves that is false. There are all sorts of diseases that are past from mother to child. Which, just made me think...you do understand what sin in the flesh is right? That it's not just desires but actual imperfections in our DNA. The part in us that makes some born will all sorts of aliments. Down Syndrome are normally past from the mother. 88% of the cases is because of a problem with the eggs of the mother. I think you and I have a completely different understanding of sin.
Here's a statement I wonder if you believe. Jesus was capable of sinning or rebelling as a human and still is able to do so right at this moment.
Of course he was. He was able to sin as a man -- he faced temptation. But he did not sin.
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Don't bring the same ol' doctrine stuff. Let me go ahead and pre-reject it. This time post only scriptures to prove the above wrong. Or if you agree with it, prove it right with the only Bible. Don't add any of your own words.
You're doing a lot of figuring there for a guy that was asking me to give scripture answers only.
The text says that in Adam we all sin. That's it. Now tell me again why you don't believe that?
I get that. But I don't know how else you can read the verses I gave. It explicitly states that in Adam we all sin. How else do you read that?
I read that to mean that as Adam and Eve's posterity, we have inherited their human nature. We will all sin during our lives. It is inevitable. But we aren't guilty of something we didn't do. Until we sin, we are not sinners. Are you a murderer just because you have the potential to murder? Of course not. Murder is just one of many different sins. Which sin are we guilty of before we commit it?
Let the Bible interpret itself. Most want it their way, and it is clear without man's interpretations.
Wow. How can you possible say that? First of all, that's an absolute impossibility. People understand the same words differently, based on their backgrounds and educations. How anyone can deny that there is more than one way to interpret any given verse of scripture is beyond me. I'm not saying all interpretations are correct, but to simply pretend that the Bible is "clear without man's interpretations" is flat out ignoring the facts.
GOD > BIBLE. Period. What God says is always more important than a collection of 2000+ year old texts containing between 200,00 - 800,000 textual variants in the New Testament alone. A similar number in the Old Testament. Textual variants do not invalidate the Bible as many non-believers wish it would. But it underscores the fact that the Bible is an imperfect source. Add to that the fact that human language is incapable of perfection. Add to that the list of missing books specifically referenced in the Bible: Gad, Nathan, Jasher, Ahijah, Iddo, Shemaiah, Jehu and Enoch. Add to that the completely unknowable number of missing texts we don't know about.
I love and respect the Bible, but it is foolishness to treat it as something bigger than it really is. It is a compilation of the surviving prophetic and apostolic works over the ages. The Bible never claims to be complete. The Bible never claims to be infallible. The Bible never claims to be sufficient. The word "Bible" never actually appears in the Bible.
The Bible leaves us a TON of unanswered questions. There are over 45,000 Christian denominations who are all saying the same thing: "You're reading it wrong and we're reading it right." I know that Vizio hates that statistic so for his benefit let me say this. Even if there are only 1,000 Christian denominations, that is 999 too many. The Bible has not succeeded in unifying Christendom. Its massive list of unanswered questions has unfortunately done the exact opposite.
I'd say we agree on the weeds/tares taking over. Obviously, they did. We probably disagree on the repercussions though. I'd say that revelation and scripture ceased because of the weeds taking over, not because God willed such things to end.
As far as "not mentioning new canon," there are actually many passages that seem indicate that before the Second Coming of Christ, that there would be new scripture and most certainly new revelation. But since interpretations will vary, I won't dive into that too much. Let's just assume that you're right and no new canon was explicitly predicted. Where does the Bible ever specifically and explicitly predicted that there would be "new canon". The very concept of "canon" would have been a pretty foreign concept to every writer of every Biblical text.
But the bigger issue is this. Why are we looking to the Bible to tell us whether or not God will speak to us again? This turns the Bible into an idol. A god that we are putting before God.
I think it is incredibly arrogant of Christianity to try to cram God into a tiny box we call the Bible, put the Bible on higher standing than God and claim that God can't or won't reveal any new scripture or revelation to humankind. More humans are alive today than ever before. We face problems that didn't exist anciently. We need God more now than ever. Why wouldn't he speak today?
Ugh, I think we need a new thread if we're going to continue with this. I have no interest in hijacking somebody else's thread.
Your numbers are a bit off. The total is based on any slight disagreement between the some 5000 various MS. If 1 MS disagrees with an other, it is counted as 5000 disagreements. the reality is that the vast majority of differences are in spelling. With the discovery of the dead Sea scrolls we can see the minor variations.The old canard that we do not know what the originals said is now dead. We do know. Where there are some variations that are not spelling issues, they do not impact anything important such as was the number 70 or 72. Some want to denigrate the Bible so they can claim a new revelation has been given. Nope, such is not needed.
If the Bible is not the touch stone for today, the nothing is.God may speak again, but there is no way to prove such has occurred, especially when it conflicts with the Bible. That alone would tell us the claim is false. Man exalting man is not uncommon and continues to this day.
AS to the weeds taking over, it is true or Jesus lied. The repercussions? At the harvest the wheat is taken out of all the churches in existence prior to the harvest. Until then all were weed filled. So if we are in the last days, any Church that has a history of say, 150 years or so as an organized group, is weed filled. Now if we are not in the Harvest then they are all weed filled. It is one or the other.
Jesus words are clear and agree in all MS, so we know there is no mistake in them.
I read that to mean that as Adam and Eve's posterity, we have inherited their human nature. We will all sin during our lives. It is inevitable.
If, by nature, I'm a sinner.....what does that mean I am drawn to?
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But we aren't guilty of something we didn't do. Until we sin, we are not sinners.
Actually, Ephesians 2 says we are children of wrath. We were dead in our sins until Christ saved us.
So...we sin because we are sinners. We are not good people that decide to go bad. At least, that's the reality that Scripture paints.
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Are you a murderer just because you have the potential to murder? Of course not. Murder is just one of many different sins. Which sin are we guilty of before we commit it?
I'll quote you a passage that sums it up.
1 Corinthians 2:14, "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."
Wow. How can you possible say that? First of all, that's an absolute impossibility. People understand the same words differently, based on their backgrounds and educations. How anyone can deny that there is more than one way to interpret any given verse of scripture is beyond me. I'm not saying all interpretations are correct, but to simply pretend that the Bible is "clear without man's interpretations" is flat out ignoring the facts.
Nope, Clear scripture is ... clear. It is only when men ignore the proper grammar rules or try to ignore the actual context or ... isolate a verse and give an interpretation, that we have problems.
Example: Jesus is the Savior, the Messiah. A LOT of clear scriptures there. A clear teaching exists in more than one verse. When we have just one verse (Or worse none), it cannot be used as a basis for any teaching.
Now how about Baptism? It is a Christian rite and again multiple clear scriptures say it should occur. Where interpretation and man's thoughts come in with the baptism of, as an example, infant baptism, as an example. Infant Baptism is not mentioned and every example is adults choosing to be baptized.
When someone wants to go beyond what is clear we get man's thoughts, like baptism for the dead, which is again taking a single verse out of context and ignoring the fact no such event is ever mentioned in clear scripture as occurring. A man made doctrine.
Mans interpretation is easy to see and God's clear word is ...found in more than reading one verse out of context or ignoring proper rules of translation.Man's views are why we have so many denominations.
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