1 Corinthians 15:1-8 - The Gospel That Saves (testimonies, mission, Romans)
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We all have our individual crosses to bear. Mine is an intellect on the Aspergers spectrum that inhibits my social interactions and communications. But unlike you, I cannot easily be persuaded to reject my experiences based on others' interpretations of brain function. Of course, there MUST be some indication of brain response underlying every single one of our experiences or they would not occur. To pretend that identifying brain responses automatically rules out the validity of the experiences is just silly. What experience would NOT have underlying brain responses associated with it? This is why I spent so many years achieving altered states while retaining sober conscious control to evaluate them with. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.
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Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
LOL There ya go again Mystic. I didn't give it up willingly. I agreed with the conclusion despite my wants. I'm not a genius or educated woman so it's easy for me to look at another human being and say "If it can happen to them it can happen to me."
I apologize if I offended you in any way. That is my cross at work again. I simply wanted to disabuse you of the silly idea that identifying brain responses associated with ANY experience somehow undermines the validity of the experience. ALL our experiences have brain responses associated with them or they would NOT occur.
"I apologize if I offended you in any way. That is my cross at work again. I simply wanted to disabuse you of the idea that identifying brain responses associated with ANY experience somehow undermines the validity of the experience. ALL our experiences have brain responses associated with them or they would NOT occur."
I removed one word: "silly". Can you see that it is a judgment word? Stick with facts.
Jesus isn't making personal encounters with people today, appearing to them in states of meditation. That includes me. And He certainly wouldn't appear to one person and tell that person that everyone is saved while appearing to someone else and telling that person something entirely different, or telling them something which is contrary to what the apostles wrote. The standard of truth concerning the issue of salvation is what the apostles wrote. After all, it was they who were personally taught by Jesus during His earthly ministry, and who were promised by Jesus to be led to all the truth by the Holy Spirit.
Even a person who doesn't believe in any of the claims of Christianity, or any of what the Bible says, should be able to understand that since the Bible makes certain claims about what is necessary for salvation, then anyone who makes claims contrary to what the Bible says is simply disregarding what the apostles said in favor of their own personal opinions. And that leads to subjective opinions rather than than trusting the objective statements of the apostles. It comes down to whether or not a person believes what was recorded in the Bible.
You ask if there's a genuine article which I assume you to be asking if Jesus is who He claimed to be. I believe so based on the historical evidence and testimony of the apostles.
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Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
How do you explain these encounters? Probably the same way I do, right? Obviously the Bible can be misinterpreted even by the most sincere of seekers so something is going on here.
I've read the Bible, I don't know as much as you do, and I would say EVERYTHING, that was needed for salvation was already done. That's why I find the faith vs works debate absurd.
Do you mean how do I explain the supposed encounters with Jesus that people think they have had? I believe in the supernatural and that there are supernatural beings who are in opposition to God. People have claimed that Jesus communicates with them through things such as automatic writing and then proceed to write the supposed messages from Jesus that they claim to have received. I believe that a person can open themselves up to demonic influences through things such as meditation or occult practices. These spirit beings pretend to be Jesus or some other Biblical figure, or some angel.
I agree that everything that was needed for salvation has been done. That is, I believe, as I have said many times, that Jesus accomplished on the cross everything that was necessary to make salvation possible. But that doesn't make salvation automatic. Salvation was made possible at the cross. It is offered to all. But the means of accepting that offer is to believe that Christ died for your sins. There is a volitional aspect involved in which a person has to understand and believe that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. Trusting in Christ Jesus is relying on Him for eternal life instead of relying on anything that you do to earn or deserve eternal life.
Do you mean how do I explain the supposed encounters with Jesus that people think they have had? I believe in the supernatural and that there are supernatural beings who are in opposition to God. People have claimed that Jesus communicates with them through things such as automatic writing and then proceed to write the supposed messages from Jesus that they claim to have received. I believe that a person can open themselves up to demonic influences through things such as meditation or occult practices. These spirit beings pretend to be Jesus or some other Biblical figure, or some angel.
There is no way to reason with unreasonable supernatural beliefs.
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I agree that everything that was needed for salvation has been done. That is, I believe, as I have said many times, that Jesus accomplished on the cross everything that was necessary to make salvation possible. But that doesn't make salvation automatic. Salvation was made possible at the cross. It is offered to all. But the means of accepting that offer is to believe that Christ died for your sins. There is a volitional aspect involved in which a person has to understand and believe that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. Trusting in Christ Jesus is relying on Him for eternal life instead of relying on anything that you do to earn or deserve eternal life.
This self-contradictory rationale is just silly. Of course, we have nothing to do with earning or deserving our salvation because as you said:"Jesus accomplished on the cross everything that was necessary to make salvation possible." Why do you then add something for us to "DO to earn or deserve our salvation?" You make no sense whatsoever.
I apologize if I offended you in any way. That is my cross at work again. I simply wanted to disabuse you of the silly idea that identifying brain responses associated with ANY experience somehow undermines the validity of the experience. ALL our experiences have brain responses associated with them or they would NOT occur.
Don't worry about me Mystic. I got the OK from your Jesus. After that nothing anyone says can bring me down.
There is no way to reason with unreasonable supernatural beliefs. This self-contradictory rationale is just silly. Of course, we have nothing to do with earning or deserving our salvation because as you said:"Jesus accomplished on the cross everything that was necessary to make salvation possible." Why do you then add something for us to "DO to earn or deserve our salvation?" You make no sense whatsoever.
How you can fail to understand so simple is beyond me, as is your rejection of the supernatural or even the possibility of it.
Jesus' work on the cross made salvation possible. Not automatic. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. The sin debt has been paid which means that sin is not the issue in salvation. Instead, the issue is whether or not a person will make a positive faith response to the gospel message concerning Jesus. As stated by Paul, no one is justified until they believe in Christ. Romans chapters 3-5 are clear about this. No one is saved until they are imputed with the righteousness of Jesus which happens at the moment of faith in Christ.
Trusting in Jesus is not doing anything to earn or deserve salvation. It is in fact an acknowledgment that we can do nothing to earn or deserve salvation. Faith in Jesus is non-meritorious. We take no credit for trusting in Christ. The merit goes to Jesus.
Question asked;
Acts 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Question answered:
Acts 16:31 And they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Do you mean how do I explain the supposed encounters with Jesus that people think they have had? I believe in the supernatural and that there are supernatural beings who are in opposition to God. People have claimed that Jesus communicates with them through things such as automatic writing and then proceed to write the supposed messages from Jesus that they claim to have received. I believe that a person can open themselves up to demonic influences through things such as meditation or occult practices. These spirit beings pretend to be Jesus or some other Biblical figure, or some angel.
I agree that everything that was needed for salvation has been done. That is, I believe, as I have said many times, that Jesus accomplished on the cross everything that was necessary to make salvation possible. But that doesn't make salvation automatic. Salvation was made possible at the cross. It is offered to all. But the means of accepting that offer is to believe that Christ died for your sins. There is a volitional aspect involved in which a person has to understand and believe that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. Trusting in Christ Jesus is relying on Him for eternal life instead of relying on anything that you do to earn or deserve eternal life.
That's too bad. I guess we don't explain it the same way then. I find the personal testimony fascinating. I wasn't referring to people who use their experience for profit. Those people are obvious scammers IMO.
What you believe in regards to eternal damnation isn't the truth.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with God, whatsoever.
You have a rude awaking coming your way. It's really sad you think you know more than Jesus.
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