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Theologians and commentators have various views on which generation 'this generation' refers to. Some, such as D. A. Carson take the position that Jesus was referring to his own generation. I don't agree. Others, such as John F. Walvoord and Charles H. Dyer take the position that Jesus was referring to the future generation that would see the signs of which He had just spoken. This is the view to which I hold.
Quoting Walvoord and Dyer with respect to 'this generation' in Matthew 24:34;
This passage contains two key, controversial phrases: ''this generation'' and ''all these things.'' Determining their meaning will help to unlock Christ's teaching here. Carson is emphatic that Jesus meant His own generation, and states: ''This generation' . . . can only with the greatest difficulty be made to mean anything than the generation living when Jesus spoke''. Noland says that the word consistently refers to a single human generation and adds: All the alternative senses proposed here (the Jewish people; humanity; the generation of the end time signs; wicked people ) are artificial and based on the need to protect Jesus from error.'' The mention of error is based on what some consider to be a misstatement by Christ, since a generation is normally from thirty to one hundred years and obviously, the prophecy of the second coming was not fulfilled in that period -- a charge which MacArthur rightly labels ''spurious.'' A better explanation is to allow the word ''generation'' its normal meaning of a period of thirty to one hundred years. However, rather than referring to His own generation, or being in error, Jesus was pointing to the particular future generation that will see the specific signs of the great tribulation. In other words, the same generation that will experience the great tribulation will also witness the second coming of Christ.
Matthew, John F. Walvoord and Charles H. Dyer, pp. 330-31
After his resurrection, the disciples asked Jesus if it was at this time that He would restore the kingdom to Israel. In reply, Jesus told them that it wasn't for them to know the times and epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority. In saying that, Jesus left open the possibility that a great deal of time might elapse before His return.
Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, ''Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?'' 7] He said to them, ''It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority.
The age of Israel was put on hold for the calling out of a new people - the Church. Once the Church-age has completed, it will be taken up into heaven and the Tribulation which is the last seven years remaining to the age of Israel will take place. At the end of the Tribulation Jesus will return, physically and visibly, and will establish His kingdom upon the earth.
wll, that doesnt make any sense, as there are other verses that mention there will be people who cannot discern the times in which they are living.
Plus, the fact Jesus listed so many specific things to look out for (in order to discern the times), why would he do that if people were not meant to know the times?
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Jesus said he will return and be VISIBLE in the sky to where the whole earth will see him. He said it would happen to the generation of people he was speaking to.
Preterism isn't the answer either; Jesus said his return would be visible to all the tribes of the earth. VISIBLE.
Those disciples were waiting on the coming day of the Lord in their own lifetimes, Matthew 24 begins on Tishri 1, and Jesus isn't speaking of the end of the world, he is speaking to people who have lived a Passover lifestyle and he is showing how you progressively crossover to the fall holy days. The day no man knows is Rosh Hashanah, it is the coming of the Lord.
Revelation is showing the exact same thing, and the very first sentence tells the reader that everything in the book must shortly come to pass for anyone who would walk in the prophesies of the book which are showing Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot. Like Matthew 24, Revelation begins on Tishri 1 on the feast of Trumpets, and everything in the book is to happen to you. Those 7 seals are 7 linen wraps you put on a dead man, and when the first seal is taken off, the first trumpet is heard and the first bowl poured out on you, it is a slow resurrection where you have died daily in Passover, and now you are being resurrected in the fall holy days to become a new creature.
Theologians and commentators have various views on which generation 'this generation' refers to. Some, such as D. A. Carson take the position that Jesus was referring to his own generation. I don't agree. Others, such as John F. Walvoord and Charles H. Dyer take the position that Jesus was referring to the future generation that would see the signs of which He had just spoken. This is the view to which I hold.
Quoting Walvoord and Dyer with respect to 'this generation' in Matthew 24:34;
This passage contains two key, controversial phrases: ''this generation'' and ''all these things.'' Determining their meaning will help to unlock Christ's teaching here. Carson is emphatic that Jesus meant His own generation, and states: ''This generation' . . . can only with the greatest difficulty be made to mean anything than the generation living when Jesus spoke''. Noland says that the word consistently refers to a single human generation and adds: All the alternative senses proposed here (the Jewish people; humanity; the generation of the end time signs; wicked people ) are artificial and based on the need to protect Jesus from error.'' The mention of error is based on what some consider to be a misstatement by Christ, since a generation is normally from thirty to one hundred years and obviously, the prophecy of the second coming was not fulfilled in that period -- a charge which MacArthur rightly labels ''spurious.'' A better explanation is to allow the word ''generation'' its normal meaning of a period of thirty to one hundred years. However, rather than referring to His own generation, or being in error, Jesus was pointing to the particular future generation that will see the specific signs of the great tribulation. In other words, the same generation that will experience the great tribulation will also witness the second coming of Christ.
Matthew, John F. Walvoord and Charles H. Dyer, pp. 330-31
After his resurrection, the disciples asked Jesus if it was at this time that He would restore the kingdom to Israel. In reply, Jesus told them that it wasn't for them to know the times and epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority. In saying that, Jesus left open the possibility that a great deal of time might elapse before His return.
Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, ''Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?'' 7] He said to them, ''It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority.
The age of Israel was put on hold for the calling out of a new people - the Church. Once the Church-age has completed, it will be taken up into heaven and the Tribulation which is the last seven years remaining to the age of Israel will take place. At the end of the Tribulation Jesus will return, physically and visibly, and will establish His kingdom upon the earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62
wll, that doesnt make any sense, as there are other verses that mention there will be people who cannot discern the times in which they are living.
Plus, the fact Jesus listed so many specific things to look out for (in order to discern the times), why would he do that if people were not meant to know the times?
You need to keep things in context. Jesus told the Pharisee's in Matthew 16:3 that they couldn't discern the the signs of the times, although they should have been able to. That is a completely different context from that of Matthew 24:23-30 in which Jesus stated that the generation that sees the signs that will occur in the Tribulation will see His return (whether or not some of those who will see the signs understand that they indicate His near return).
There will be signs during the Tribulation which those who have understood the Scriptures will recognize that it means that Jesus' return is near. On the other hand, there are no signs which will indicate that our present Church age is about to end.
Theologians and commentators have various views on which generation 'this generation' refers to. Some, such as D. A. Carson take the position that Jesus was referring to his own generation. I don't agree. Others, such as John F. Walvoord and Charles H. Dyer take the position that Jesus was referring to the future generation that would see the signs of which He had just spoken. This is the view to which I hold.
snip
The age of Israel was put on hold for the calling out of a new people - the Church. Once the Church-age has completed, it will be taken up into heaven and the Tribulation which is the last seven years remaining to the age of Israel will take place. At the end of the Tribulation Jesus will return, physically and visibly, and will establish His kingdom upon the earth.
Didn't though Paul, Peter and John and the author of Hebrews expect an imminent return of Jesus? Paul even went so far as to tell members of the Corinthian group who were unmarried to not get married, because of the coming tribulation.
The truth is he never left in the first place. The very last thing he said to his disciples was "I AM with you always".
Scripture, John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him".
question if the Father was sending the Comforter, why is it he came also? read the verse again.
Didn't though Paul, Peter and John and the author of Hebrews expect an imminent return of Jesus? Paul even went so far as to tell members of the Corinthian group who were unmarried to not get married, because of the coming tribulation.
Many in the early church did seem to think that Jesus' might return within their lifetime. Since the time of His return was left ambiguous many expected a soon return even though Jesus didn't give any specific time concerning His return.
Consider also, the fact that the rapture of the church in which Jesus returns to the clouds for the church, and which precedes the Tribulation, is imminent which means that it could occur at any time. There will be no signs which precede the rapture of the church, unlike the fact that once the Tribulation begins, there will be signs which indicate the return of Jesus. The rapture of the church could have occurred at any time once the church-age began. Of course, if you don't hold to the pre-tribulational rapture view then you won't agree with what I just said. But Paul was pretty clear in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 through 5:9 that the church would be raptured before the day of the Lord which will begin with the Tribulation.
Many in the early church did seem to think that Jesus' might return within their lifetime. Since the time of His return was left ambiguous many expected a soon return even though Jesus didn't give any specific time concerning His return.
Consider also, the fact that the rapture of the church in which Jesus returns to the clouds for the church, and which precedes the Tribulation, is imminent which means that it could occur at any time. There will be no signs which precede the rapture of the church, unlike the fact that once the Tribulation begins, there will be signs which indicate the return of Jesus. The rapture of the church could have occurred at any time once the church-age began. Of course, if you don't hold to the pre-tribulational rapture view then you won't agree with what I just said. But Paul was pretty clear in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 through 5:9 that the church would be raptured before the day of the Lord which will begin with the Tribulation.
I must disagree with the assessment that the coming of Christ precede the tribulation, scripture say different
Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
from the begining of sorrows until the end we will be here. Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
well if we who are alive will be here to end then that means no one is leaving before, just as the apostle said, 1 Thessalonians 4:15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep".
Scripture, John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him".
question if the Father was sending the Comforter, why is it he came also? read the verse again.
PICYJAG.
It was the Father in him that spoke to them. The whole thing(The works and the words) was the Father, but the disciples did not see it. Just so you know i do not believe in a trinity. He (Jesus Christ) is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature.
Yeshua said to him, “All this time I am with you and you have not known me Phillip? Whoever has seen me has seen The Father, and how do you say, 'Show us The Father'?”.
It is quite obvious from that statement that Jesus was not referring to his outward appearance, but the inner man that expressed the Father in all that He is.
The second coming is the awareness that Jesus Christ is in you.
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