Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What religious freedoms do you feel have been taken away from Christian business owners?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Freedom to stay away from immoral wedding ceremonies.
Who is being forced to attend a wedding ceremony?
Moreover, baking a cake which is a product of one's business has nothing to do with 'morality' ...it's simply baking a cake for a client. Does the cake become gay once it's baked? A gay cake? Where do you come up with this stuff, Jeff? Certainly not the Bible.
Anyway, I personally have absolutely NO sympathy for any business that is hauled over the coals for placing 'morality' on a requested item of food and refusing to serve the client. What would Jesus do, Jeff? I think we both know what he'd say to you ...don't we? Possibly something to do with 'whitewashed tombs'.
A fault I admit. I try not to be... it's just I know what I have been going through is true. And I just want to get it all out there. I'm not trying to make myself seem better than anyone else. It's just I truly feel incredibly blessed, overjoyed, and I do strongly believe in what I have been experiencing.
Oh, I never said that at all!
I didn't call him a liar. If I had done so, I would have to call myself one (at the time I purchased the book). But I wasn't. Satan is the liar. Indeed, I was pursuing a false gospel that I wanted to believe and I wanted to believe made sense. Essentially, I was still doing so in good faith, albeit interpreting the Gospel in a way that would be unduly favorable to my own lusts. Yes, you can act in good faith and still have biases. Bad faith is equivalent to intentional deception on the part of the bad faith actor.
I don't accuse Mr. Vines of acting in bad faith, as that is indeed a serious allegation of fact for which I have no supporting evidence. No. Not at all. Rather, what I am saying is that Satan gets others to preach a false gospel. The preachers themselves may essentially be acting in good faith. It's Satan who's acting in bad faith.
Yes, of course, there was a global flood, and there's a flood of evidence. The Sumerians aren't the only culture who had a flood legend. In fact, we are finding flood legends in cultures all over the world. Over 300, in fact, (maybe up to 500) many of which are in arid climates! Cultures as disparate as the Aztecs, Tanzanians, Chinese, Hawaiians, and Australian Aboriginals--to name just a few. And, get this, Noah's name is even cognate is many languages! Nol in the Pacific Island culture of the Loyalty Islands. Nu'u in Hawaiian. Nuah in Maio (Chinese). Noeh in Ireland. Nama in Central Asia.
I just don't get it when some people say they believe in God, but then they misplace their faith in science. Science is totally fallible! It's constantly turned on its head!
(Source: A Flood of Evidence: 40 Reasons Noah and His Ark Still Matter by Kem Ham and Bodie Hodge)
1700 years ago, one of the church fathers that fundamentalists today like to quote because of his insertion of an evil Satan (not Ha-Satan of the OT who was a servant of God) into orthodox Christianity, wrote this about pigheaded bible-readers who wouldn't use common sense about science:
Quote:
Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]
Saint Augustine (A.D. 354-430) in his work The Literal Meaning of Genesis (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim) provided excellent advice for all Christians who are faced with the task of interpreting Scripture in the light of scientific knowledge. This translation is by J. H. Taylor in Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41.
It's amazing. A Saint prophesized you and quite a few like you would destroy any testimony you might have concerning the bible by being ignorant about science!! Young people who are more educated than ever now have doubts about both the anti-science stance and the social stance of the church:
Quote:
----young Christians say that their church does not allow them to express doubts and say that the church’s response to the expression of doubts is not adequate.
Yes, of course, there was a global flood, and there's a flood of evidence. The Sumerians aren't the only culture who had a flood legend. In fact, we are finding flood legends in cultures all over the world. Over 300, in fact, (maybe up to 500) many of which are in arid climates! Cultures as disparate as the Aztecs, Tanzanians, Chinese, Hawaiians, and Australian Aboriginals--to name just a few. And, get this, Noah's name is even cognate is many languages! Nol in the Pacific Island culture of the Loyalty Islands. Nu'u in Hawaiian. Nuah in Maio (Chinese). Noeh in Ireland. Nama in Central Asia.
I just don't get it when some people say they believe in God, but then they misplace their faith in science. Science is totally fallible! It's constantly turned on its head!
(Source: A Flood of Evidence: 40 Reasons Noah and His Ark Still Matter by Kem Ham and Bodie Hodge)
Ken Ham is not a reliable source for anything scientific. That includes all of his web sites, and refers to all fields of science, including biology, geology, and anthropology. Creation.org is an equally unreliable source.
Who said anything about attending? They simply don't want to do get involved in any way with gay marriage. Try to imagine for one moment that homosexuality really is a sin and gay marriage greatly offends God. Do you really want to stand before God one day and explain why you decided to make money on helping contribute to a sinful act being a success?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Moreover, baking a cake which is a product of one's business has nothing to do with 'morality' ...it's simply baking a cake for a client. Does the cake become gay once it's baked? A gay cake? Where do you come up with this stuff, Jeff? Certainly not the Bible.
The "gay cake" argument is ridiculous. The product itself is irrelevant. If you owned a pet shop, would you want to sell dog chrew bones to known dog fighters? The bone itself is not the issue. It's the same dilemma a Christian faces if they are invited to a gay wedding.
Quote:
With that clarifying comment, we can address the question head-on: Why would a Christian feel conscience bound not to attend or participate in a gay wedding? It’s not because of bigotry or fear or because we are unaware that Jesus spent time with sinners that leads us to this conclusion. It’s because of our desire to be obedient to Christ and because of the nature of the wedding event itself.
A wedding ceremony, in the Christian tradition, is first of all a worship service. So if the union being celebrated in the service cannot be biblically sanctioned as an act of worship, we believe the service lends credence to a lie. We cannot in good conscience participate in a service of false worship. I understand that does not sound very nice, but the conclusion follows from the premise, namely, that the “marriage” being celebrated is not in fact a marriage and should not be celebrated.
Anyway, I personally have absolutely NO sympathy for any business that is hauled over the coals for placing 'morality' on a requested item of food and refusing to serve the client. What would Jesus do, Jeff? I think we both know what he'd say to you ...don't we? Possibly something to do with 'whitewashed tombs'.
Jesus would tell them to go and sin no more. This whole "no sympathy" is shameful because it's like taking a sledgehammer to a fly approach. This whole slash burn and destroy approach if the gay community doesn't get their way. Don't you think it's a little overblown punishment to give them death threats, vandalizing and destroy their business completely simply because they don't want to make a business transaction?
Hey buddy, the sixth century called, you have to go back home now.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
SOMEDAY he'll start thinking....we can hope.
