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Old 09-04-2008, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Newcastle, NSW Australia
65 posts, read 181,521 times
Reputation: 39

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I am totally, 100% opposed to abortion.

Still, those two comments so close together have a lot of people on the other side of the fence perplexed.

Do we (Christians) value life and agree that God alone decides who lives and who dies, or don't we?
What i am saying is that how can society easy murder babies who cannot talk for themselves and let the medical staff, mother/father who are responsible for this cold blooded murder be set free into the world 'playing God' with helpess unborn children.

If you take the life of someone who can't possibly ever defend themselves... under normal circumstances that should equal the death penalty (in our society)... and in truth it does... the act of sin = the loss of our eternal life.
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:05 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 8,284,238 times
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAP443 View Post
Well, I was having a debate with two of my closest friends, John and Stephanie at Starbucks. I asked my friends about why there are some many people that are against abortions. John told me that is a sin and states its like murdering a person, as did Stephanie.

What if the mother was raped and her life was endangered? Would it still be a sin if she engaged in getting an abortion?

Thanks in advanced.

YES
God Bless You
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,470 posts, read 61,415,702 times
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The Bible nowhere lists 'Abortion' as a sin.

Man however loves to make up sins.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:48 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,400 posts, read 8,032,855 times
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I'm going to pose a question here.
Say that there was a married couple who ABSOLUTELY didnt want children. They used BC and other methods, but the wife gets pregnant anyway. Would you have that couple KEEP that child, and possibly end up resenting that child ( which in turn makes for a screwed up kid).

OR
Would you have them given up to the State, where millions of children wait all their lives to be adopted and NEVER are? Where they go through all their lives wondering "Why didnt my parents want me?"

Abortion helps keep situations like these from happening.

And, as a side note, I dont understand WHY in the blue blazes a woman would go through the he!! that is pregnancy if she is just going to give it away??
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:17 AM
 
877 posts, read 2,077,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colddiamond102 View Post
I'm going to pose a question here.
Say that there was a married couple who ABSOLUTELY didnt want children. They used BC and other methods, but the wife gets pregnant anyway. Would you have that couple KEEP that child, and possibly end up resenting that child ( which in turn makes for a screwed up kid).

OR
Would you have them given up to the State, where millions of children wait all their lives to be adopted and NEVER are? Where they go through all their lives wondering "Why didnt my parents want me?"

Abortion helps keep situations like these from happening.
Wouldn't infanticide also keep these situations from happening? Why bother drawing a line in the sand? If death is better than an uncomfortable life, there's no reason why "mercy killing" should stop at birth.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,470 posts, read 61,415,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman0 View Post
Wouldn't infanticide also keep these situations from happening? Why bother drawing a line in the sand? If death is better than an uncomfortable life, there's no reason why "mercy killing" should stop at birth.
Because by a Bible definition of life once born and breathing it is a living soul.

A big difference.
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:43 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,569,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
The Bible nowhere lists 'Abortion' as a sin.

Man however loves to make up sins.
Does the bible list pornography etc...If the bible had every thing in it, there would be no way we could carry it because it would be too big and heavy to lift.
I really wish you would argue sensibly, It's called systematic theology, we can see from the bible what is wrong and what is right.

The question isn't, if abortion is a sin?, the question is, Is abortion the right term used to commit such a heinous act upon God's blessing?

It is called "murder", and I do believe the bible talks about murder and calls it a SIN.

"Abortion" is a man made word, used to appease the conscience.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 09-05-2008 at 07:52 AM..
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:56 AM
 
7,998 posts, read 12,277,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post

I would suspect if the mother does not believe it's a sin, then she will not feel any guilt.

If she believes it's a sin, then she'd be guilty.

I can't judge her. It's between her and God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsavvy View Post

counseled women who have had abortions?

I can tell you for a fact that not everyone automatically carries the "inner torment" which you speak of.
June can honestly say that she has reread this thread numerous times. It is not only informative, but coincidental.

In two hours I am meeting with a very young woman who is in crisis. She is a single, unwed mother of two special needs children, a recovering drug addict, barely able to feed herself and the two children she has. She is utterly alone, and:

pregnant.

For the sake of this post, I will leave out both how she came to conceive this child, as well as June's personal feelings as regards abortion. What I find interesting is that given the nature of the work I do, my "personal feelings" about anything are rarely disclosed, or only if/when doing so is in the best interests of the person I am sitting with. As a rule, I rarely self disclose.

This girl has been seeing me for quite a while now. She is, by all accounts, one of life's "success stories" inasmuch as she has overcome odds that most would perhaps find unimaginable, if not downright unbelievable. She left home very young, lived on the streets, or rather, I should say, "survived." Barely. She has been in recovery from drug addiction for quite some time, and only recently was reunited with her two young children who had been previously removed by the state.

This girl is in crisis due to this unplanned pregnancy. She is scared to death and utterly conflicted in what to do. She knows she can barely manage with the two children she already has, both of whom she loves and cherishes. She hangs onto her recovery from drugs minute by minute. --And what has her most conflicted? This:

"June, I know I can't make it having this baby. But I can't do an abortion, either. It would be murder. It's a sin. I would go to hell."

This is not what anyone would even remotely think of as being a "religious" girl. She does not, (nor do I believe has ever) attended church. But she has internalized the morals, the principles, and the message that many have. What I initially found compelling is the disconnect between her life lived, and her conflict now...But I shouldn't have. It's her reality; it is our reality. It's life.

It is life as lived, as welll as within her.

No doubt she will sit before me again today and beg me to tell her what I think she should do. -Which just so happens to be the very thing I cannot and should not do. And I won't. She doesn't need me to tell her that a third child under the conditions and circumstances which she lives will (almost certainly) result in her relapsing. She doesn't need me to tell her that in relapsing, she will absolutely lose all three children, permenantly. She doesn't need me to tell her that there is a very high likelihood that that would result in her losing her life. Ending her life. No question about it. She's already stated it.

Abortion is a huge religious and moral dliemma.

She has already been to different places for "counselling" and "advice" as regards what her options are. She cannot decide. She is the definition of living turmoil, and angst. I believe her when she tells me that she knows that she won't make it with a third child in her life. She is barely making it now. I also believe her, and take her very, very seriously when she says she knows she will end up relapsing, losing the children, and as a result, end her life.

So what's a June to do?

June knows what to do, as she's been well trained to do so. But I cannot help but sit here and marvel at the angst she feels within her dilemma as regards her fear of going to hell; of committing that sin...Versus her having that third child. Which is high risk. Some would say too high of a risk, as it could potentially leave three siblings separated from one another, raised in different foster homes. When this unwed mother tells me that she knows she will end up dead, I believe her. So I sit here now, wondering: What is in the best interests of all involved? --And "all involved" extends far beyond her two existing children, her unborn child, and the walls of my office...

To those who feel that abortion is a sin, is murder, and that this girl would go to hell, I would ask you: What would you tell her? To those that feel it is a woman's right to choose, I would ask: What would you tell her? What do we make of this attitude, this belief, this feeling, this utter fear of "sin" "murder" and "hell" that could very well result in a decision that devastates the lives of others?

What is the true definition of "life giving?"

I will support this girl in whatever decision she chooses. I have already told her that. I will not, however, endorse or support any aspects of potential suicide in someone. And no doubt, in her desperation, the crux of the matter is for her as it is for all of us:

How much loss can we, as human beings, realistically bear?


Take gentle care.
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:58 AM
 
877 posts, read 2,077,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Because by a Bible definition of life once born and breathing it is a living soul.

A big difference.
The issue is the poster said that abortions prevent:
1) parental resentment for an unwanted child; and
2) children being turned over to the state for adoption.

Neither of these problems are exclusively solved by abortion. Infanticide is just as effective at solving these "problems." In fact, I would say that infanticide is more effective, because then you give parents more time to decide whether the child is wanted or not.

I'm just playing devils advocate here. I think abortion robs a human life of a chance at life and torments the soul before it even has a chance to seek redemption.

The arguments for abortion serve equally well for infanticide, but pro-abortion activists aren't willing to follow their arguments to their logical conclusions, because then they would be forced to realize how repulsive their position really is.
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:25 AM
 
1,703 posts, read 5,143,844 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
The Bible nowhere lists 'Abortion' as a sin.

Man however loves to make up sins.
No but the bible does name Murder as a sin.
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