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What good is having 'theologians' when their 'opinions' do not concur with the Word of God?
There were people in the days of Jesus who would twist the Word of God, and they KNEW JESUS.
Nowhere does it state that Jesus or any of the Apostles starting the catholic church. ....well except in 'catholic' books.
Whether the catholic church was started or not is ALSO irrevelant as they dont even conform with the simple truths of the Word of God.
Just because something started good doesnt mean it is now good or ends up good.
Bowing down to statues and praying to dead people has and ALWAYS will be an abomination to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
You do realize the Catholic Church was around virtually 400 years before there was a canonized Bible? You do realize that Bible does NOT declare that it is the sole source of truth and devine revelation, but merely says it is helpful and declares that not everything Jesus said or did is in it? You do realize that the Bible DOES declare that truth comes from both tradition and writings and the Gospel should be spread using both? You do realize that the very church that you dislike so much is the very organization who canonized YOUR Bible, albeit with a few more books - the very Bible you use to discredit the church that compiled it. You do realize that Jesus created the Catholic Church and your church was created by a man? You do realize that the early Early Church fathers and their Christian followers wrote about staying true to doctrine as prescribed by the Pope in Rome, baptized babies, confessed their sins to priests, and proclaimed that the bread and wine were actually the body and blood of Christ?
I have 2000 years of some of the brightest theologians, and Jesus given authority backing me up, spirit filled and God led. You have.......your opinion. Good luck with that.
1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
hmmm i wonder what xmas trees are really about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh
Since we are in the Christmas season, Christmas seems the most relevant celebration to investigate. Do a google search for Christmas...
You do realize the Catholic Church was around virtually 400 years before there was a canonized Bible? You do realize that Bible does NOT declare that it is the sole source of truth and devine revelation, but merely says it is helpful and declares that not everything Jesus said or did is in it? You do realize that the Bible DOES declare that truth comes from both tradition and writings and the Gospel should be spread using both? You do realize that the very church that you dislike so much is the very organization who canonized YOUR Bible, albeit with a few more books - the very Bible you use to discredit the church that compiled it. You do realize that Jesus created the Catholic Church and your church was created by a man? You do realize that the early Early Church fathers and their Christian followers wrote about staying true to doctrine as prescribed by the Pope in Rome, baptized babies, confessed their sins to priests, and proclaimed that the bread and wine were actually the body and blood of Christ?
I have 2000 years of some of the brightest theologians, and Jesus given authority backing me up, spirit filled and God led. You have.......your opinion. Good luck with that.
1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
hmmm i wonder what xmas trees are really about?
Well, the whole celebration in general. All that was done to "Christianize" this pagan celebration was to try to coincide Jesus' birth. They kept all of the same pagan traditions. Jesus, the Jews, nor the early Christians even celebrated Jesus' birth. He commanded that we remember his death.
Now it's gone a step further and it is a secular commercial holiday.
Well, the whole celebration in general. All that was done to "Christianize" this pagan celebration was to try to coincide Jesus' birth. They kept all of the same pagan traditions. Jesus, the Jews, nor the early Christians even celebrated Jesus' birth. He commanded that we remember his death.
Now it's gone a step further and it is a secular commercial holiday.
...Remember His death? That's called Good Friday/Easter. We celebrate that, too. You have to have life before you have death. At least I am pretty sure.
I don't think you have to e a JW to see the pagan traditions in Christmas (and Easter). If it matters at all, I have been studying with JW's off and on for 30 years...I've taken a lot of detours along the way.
Even when I was "off again" with my studies...I always saw the true meaning of Christmas. Christmas isn't anything to me...it's just another day. People tend to jump to the assumption that I don't enjoy family gatherings, good meals, or giving or getting gifts. In actuality, I typically get together with my family about once a month to have a nice gathering and a good meal. We give gifts spontaneously and randomly selected days...the anticipation is fun!
People also jump to the conclusion that I don't recognize Jesus because I'm not celebrating his "birthday". Really, I feel I am honoring him and his father more by abstaining from holidays smothered in pagan traditions that celebrate other gods. I commemorate Jesus' death once a year. Not an easter celebration with bunnies and eggs.
Different strokes for different folks.
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