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Old 01-06-2009, 02:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracles View Post
Christians are in a tight spot, I say. You either stand by while atrocities happen and do nothing to further so-called prophesy, or you do the 'Christian' thing and stop bloodshed but thwart your god. A wise man once told me that Jews might be the chosen people, but they should ask themselves what they are chosen for.
We can't thwart God because if He wills then it will be done. I can't speak for all Christians just fundamentalist thinking, There is no such thing as innocent people, bible says, there is none good but God, we are wretches in God's sight and to be honest we all deserve a horrible fate for breaking God's Laws, but He saved us anyway. What is happening in the Middle East is very sad but is it fair? What's fair?, I have never read anywhere in the bible about fair, God never promised any of us a happy, prosperous, joyful life; in truth we in the United States deserve the same as the Palestinians and we would have no right to complain but for some reason God blessed us and we should appreciate that blessing.

Most Christians see it as Israel protecting themselves, they are surrounded by an enemy who is hell bent on their destruction, what logical person can not see it Israel's way?, does that mean we excuse them for any atrocities committed, of course not! but many horrible things happen in times of war, we can grieve over it but we shouldn't get too caught up in it unless it to be genocide and I see no evidence of that.
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Old 01-06-2009, 04:01 PM
 
2,560 posts, read 5,179,879 times
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Israel has the right to defend itself. If they do not, there will be no more Israel.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:02 PM
 
17,751 posts, read 15,652,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
So Gwynedd1, what are Christians to do. What would you like to see done?

Hi Fundamentalist,

Follow Roman's 12.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracles View Post
So, the Palestinians are supposed to view the Israeli offer to live as second class citizens in the land of their birth as a good deal? And pay their taxes to a government that treats them like scum? Gaza, fire when ready. I don't think anyone can reasonably expect the Palestinians to honor any agreement with Israel given the Israeli treatment they receive.
They offered them equal citizenship as Israelis. Not all Israelis are Jews, they are Christian and Muslim as well, just as not all Palestinians are Muslim, there are Christians and Jews as well. The actual Palestinians are the victims just as the actual Israelis are victims. They are all victims of the actions of the terror groups which are controled by the other Arab countries. Those other Arab countries are hoping both sides wipe each other out and then they will be rid of not only the Jews but the undesireable they had already kicked out of their countries long ago. What you seem to be missing is that the terror groups, whether they be the Fatah, Hamas or the PLO are the problem. If they were gone there would be no fighting because the normal Palestinians would be welcome to Join Israel and become citizens, but imagine the lies that have been beat into all those innocent people. Just today a school was bombed killing 30, the locals took the side of the Israelis and confirmed that Hamas was using the innocents for human sheilds and to make Israel look bad.

Quote:
I don't remember the timeline here, but the Palestinians were given autonomy (how generous) and they democratically nominated the PLO, and the US and Israel turned around and said "Well, you can democratically nominate for your leadership who we pick for you. We won't recognize the PLO." Ummm, what kind of democratic process is that exactly?
You cannot have a legitimate peace agreement with a terrorist group, they will ********* every time, just look at Yassir Arafat, he would say one thing in an interview and then 5 minutes later get the crowds going by shouting death to Israel.

Quote:
Although it may sound otherwise, I really don't have much sympathy for the Palestinians. I think they behave badly and have undercut their own position plenty often. But saying that Israel is hard done by really does not wash. Israel is a giant military power. They receive $3B yearly from the US no strings attached, they enjoy near immunity for their actions by playing the anti-Semitism card when criticized. They should have taken advantage of the Bush years to invade their neighbors and commit genocide. Who would have questioned it?
I do sympathize with both the common Palestinian and the common Israeli, they are the real victims and the only way they are going to be safe is to destroy the terror groups and that is what Israel is trying to do. Palestine is getting far more in aid from the US than Israel as well as getting a monthly check from Israel which Israel withheld for a month to get the peace agreement in June. Thing is they were told they could not withhold such funds in the future even though it worked to get the ceasefire that was never honored. Israel is actually being forced to finance their own distruction.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
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This is the thing we are not looking at; Palestinians are made up of Jews, Christians, Muslims and other people groups as well. Israel is made up of the same people groups. The Palestinian government and militery are terror groups. Israel has a legitimate militery. If the terror groups were taken out of the equasion then the two people groups, Palestinians and Israelis could become one harmonious nation. The problem is that if that were to happen then they would be attacked again by the surrounding nations. What needs to be done is what is being done now, get rid of Hamas and peace will come because the common Palestinian has no problem with Israel. Israel know this and this is why they are willing to open up part of southern Israel for the refugees to run to and get out of the line of fire.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Midwest
31,382 posts, read 19,632,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb in VA View Post
You might want to consider the reason that so many innocent people are being killed in Gaza...it's because the Hamas choose to use schools, community centers, ect. to launch their rockets from. Israel is trying to destroy as many of those launching sites as possible so of course innocent people are killed as a result, which I agree, is horrible and heartbreaking. Israel is seen as being vicious while the fact that Hamas uses human shields is ignored.

Check out this article for a different point of view.

The suffering that Hamas causes - The Boston Globe
Still, no excuse to cause human suffering like that. Last count I heard was something like 400+ Women and children dead in Gaza.

5 Israeli soldiers dead 3 of which are dead from friendly fire. I am not hearing of Israeli causulties enough to justify that kind of slaughter. It breaks my heart!
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Midwest
31,382 posts, read 19,632,006 times
Reputation: 7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
We can't thwart God because if He wills then it will be done. I can't speak for all Christians just fundamentalist thinking, There is no such thing as innocent people, bible says, there is none good but God, we are wretches in God's sight and to be honest we all deserve a horrible fate for breaking God's Laws, but He saved us anyway. What is happening in the Middle East is very sad but is it fair? What's fair?, I have never read anywhere in the bible about fair, God never promised any of us a happy, prosperous, joyful life; in truth we in the United States deserve the same as the Palestinians and we would have no right to complain but for some reason God blessed us and we should appreciate that blessing.

Most Christians see it as Israel protecting themselves, they are surrounded by an enemy who is hell bent on their destruction, what logical person can not see it Israel's way?, does that mean we excuse them for any atrocities committed, of course not! but many horrible things happen in times of war, we can grieve over it but we shouldn't get too caught up in it unless it to be genocide and I see no evidence of that.
So we must kill, for what? That act in and of itself demonstrates total lack of faith in God. If God is sovereign, He would not want us to sin in His behalf.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:10 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,668 posts, read 74,637,859 times
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interesting, gaza shoots missiles at israel for over a year, gaza is "defending itself"
israel responds, they are "slaughtering".
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Still, no excuse to cause human suffering like that. Last count I heard was something like 400+ Women and children dead in Gaza.

5 Israeli soldiers dead 3 of which are dead from friendly fire. I am not hearing of Israeli causulties enough to justify that kind of slaughter. It breaks my heart!
How many Israelis have been killed by the missles Hamas has launched into Israel over the past year?
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:11 AM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,207,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
interesting, gaza shoots missiles at israel for over a year, gaza is "defending itself"
israel responds, they are "slaughtering".
1. Does the Israeli government want to be on par with Hamas?

2. Dropping cluster bombs in high population density areas is slaughtering.
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