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Who's discrediting Christ ??? You said his raising people from the dead was proof enough that he was God in the flesh. All I said is that in the Bible says, that before and after Christ was here on earth, there were also prophets and apostles who also were in the flesh and raised the dead as well. But that does'nt mean they were God Almighty.
I don't know where that could have been misunderstood.
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Who's discrediting Christ ???
That's the problem with 'talking' on here an not face to face. I appeared to me you were trying to say Christ isn't God, etc etc. If the isn't what you meant please accept my sincere apology.
So God sent Himself to earth, gave Himself instructions, obeyed Himself, prayed to Himself, later forsook Himself, and then ascended to Heaven to be with Himself, where He sits on His own righthand side today? And this is what you believe the Bible says?
I believe the Bible says God loves us so much He came to earth in human form, Jesus, He was fully God and fully human. But like I said I believe in the Trinity
I believe the Bible says God loves us so much He came to earth in human form, Jesus, He was fully God and fully human. But like I said I believe in the Trinity
So when you die and go to Heaven, who do you expect to see -- the Father, the Son or neither of them?
So God sent Himself to earth, gave Himself instructions, obeyed Himself, prayed to Himself, later forsook Himself, and then ascended to Heaven to be with Himself, where He sits on His own righthand side today? And this is what you believe the Bible says?
I see this isn't adressed to me but let's see if we can clear some of this up?
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So God sent Himself to earth,
No, He send His Word, born of the virgin to become God in the flesh.
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later forsook Himself,
This is a total misunderstanding of what Christ said on the cross. The Father did not forsake Christ while he was dying on the cross. Jesus didn't ask God, "Why are you forsaking me?" When Jesus hear the words, "save yourselve and come down from the cross," when He say the guards casting lots for His clothes, etc etc. He than quoted the first line of Psa. 22. The Psa that fortold many things that would happen to Him as He was dying.
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where He sits on His own righthand side today?
Again this is a misunderstanding of the words 'on the right hand.' It's a figure of speech. It doesn't mean that Jesus literally is standing or sitting at God's right hand. The figure of speech stand for God's majesty and power.
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And this is what you believe the Bible says
As you can see I believe things a bit differently than ILNC
I see this isn't adressed to me but let's see if we can clear some of this up?
No problemo. It doesn't matter who I addressed it to. The forum's open to everybody.
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No, He send His Word, born of the virgin to become God in the flesh.
Okay, that's what I believe, too.
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This is a total misunderstanding of what Christ said on the cross. The Father did not forsake Christ while he was dying on the cross. Jesus didn't ask God, "Why are you forsaking me?" When Jesus hear the words, "save yourselve and come down from the cross," when He say the guards casting lots for His clothes, etc etc. He than quoted the first line of Psa. 22. The Psa that fortold many things that would happen to Him as He was dying.
I've got to disagree with you on this point. I believe that there did come a time when the Father briefly left His Son alone to accomplish His mission, and that during this time, the Son recognized His absence.
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Again this is a misunderstanding of the words 'on the right hand.' It's a figure of speech. It doesn't mean that Jesus literally is standing or sitting at God's right hand. The figure of speech stand for God's majesty and power.
Hmmm. How do you decide what is a figure of speech and what's not? I mean, I am not a Bible literalist myself. I absolutely believe that there is a certain amount of symbolism (especially in Revelation!) in the Bible, along with some allegorical and figurative language. On the other hand, I see no reason to interpret this passage figuratively. I believe that when Stephen looked into Heaven and saw Jesus sitting on the right hand of the Father, that's what He actually saw. I'm afraid I don't understand why you think otherwise. It seems like such a straightforward passage.
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As you can see I believe things a bit differently than ILNC
Well, yes. And both of you believe things differently than I do. But that's okay. That makes the forum interesting.
I'm sorry, I'm probably being really annoying, but you're going to have to explain. You've been saying all along that they're all just one, and that the Father came to earth as the Son, even though He was still in Heaven as the Father. So at what point do you see the "one" becoming three?
I'm sorry, I'm probably being really annoying, but you're going to have to explain. You've been saying all along that they're all just one, and that the Father came to earth as the Son, even though He was still in Heaven as the Father. So at what point do you see the "one" becoming three?
No you're not at all annoying, you have questions, that's great, by sharing that's how we learn. Are you familiar with the Trinity? I believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, they are all God, in three different forms, but there is only one God. I know I'm not good at explaining this, I hope I don't confuse you.
No you're not at all annoying, you have questions, that's great, by sharing that's how we learn. Are you familiar with the Trinity? I believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, they are all God, in three different forms, but there is only one God. I know I'm not good at explaining this, I hope I don't confuse you.
Yes, I'm familiar with the Trinity, although I've got to say it doesn't make any sense to me.
1) In the OT, God only had the power to forgive sins, the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law knew that.
2) In the OT, God only had the power to preform miracles, the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law knew that.
3) In the OT, God said he had power over death, the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law knew that.
4) In the OT, God (Jehovah) called himself "I AM", the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law knew that.
5) In the OT, Sovereign God (LORD - Jehovah) said he would be their shepherd, we would be his flock, search for the lost and bring back the strays, bind up the injured and strengthen the weak (Ezekiel 34), the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law knew that.
6) In the OT, only the Sovereign LORD is the shepherd - no more than one.... the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law knew that.
7) IN the OT, Sovereign LORD says: I will judge between one sheep and another, and between rams and goats (Ezekiel 34) ... the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law knew that.
So......why is Jesus God?
1) Jesus forgave sins - without invoking Jehovah's name
2) Jesus preformed miracles - without invoking Jehovah's name
3A) Jesus raised the dead - without invoking Jehovah's name
3B) Jesus claimed he would raise himself from the dead, not Jehovah (John 2:19)
4) Jesus called himself "I AM" (John 8:58) - Jehovah's name
5) Jesus called himself "the shepherd" John 10:11 - not Jehovah
6) Jesus calls himself "the shepherd" not one of the shepherds
7) Jesus said he will be the judge - not Jehovah - seperating the sheep and goats - Matthew 25:32
Why did the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law opposed Jesus....
because the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law knew who Jesus was claiming to be.
Who were against God...the Pharisee's, Sadducee's and teachers of the law.. Jesus' enemies.
Who are against the God.... those who deny that Jesus is God...Jesus' enemies
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-21-2009 at 09:15 PM..
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