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Antredd, those are definitely valid points, but I really don't know where I stand with OSAS because of the verses below. I haven't read the responses on this thread so these might have already been discussed.
Mark 13:13 “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
1 Cor 15:2 "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
1 Cor 10:12 "So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall."
1 John 2:3-6 "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [5] But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
2 Peter 3:17 "Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."
What about the second soil in the parable of the sower?
Luke 8:13 "Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave
I guess no one has a response for me
Hi CW2L. I just noticed your post. Since its late and I'm tired, I'll just address a few of these verses.
1.) Mark 13:13 “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Mark 13:13 is a parallel passage with Matthew 24:13 and is talking about the fact that tribulational believers who survive to the end of the tribulation will go into the Millennial kingdom. It is a reference to the tribulational believers deliverance by the Lord's return at the Second Advent. It is in no way talking about a believer having to maintain obedience to the end of his life in order to be saved. Though he certainly should be obedient. But his eternal salvation does not depend on it.
2.) 1 John 2:3-6 "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [5] But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: [6] Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
When a person first accepts Christ as Savior, he doesn't know Christ other than what the Gospel message conveys for the purpose of salvation. It takes time and effort learning Bible doctrine to come to know Christ. That is why the believer is under the following commands:
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and for ever. Amen.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1 John 2:6 doesn't say, ''Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
1 John 2:6 says, the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
The word translated 'ought' is the Greek word OPHEILEI. Strong's number G3784 1) to owe
a) to owe money, be in debt for
1) that which is due, the debt
2) metaph. the goodwill due
Because the believer has been saved by Christ, because he has been brought with a price, the believer owes Christ obedience and should live accordingly. After salvation the believer is expected to grow spiritually. But his eternal salvation doesn't depend on it. His eternal rewards do, and so does the quality of his spiritual life while on earth, but not his eternal salvation.
3.) 2 Peter 3:17 "Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."
It's not 'your secure position.' It is steadfastness.
The Greek word is STERIGMOS- steadfastness. Strong's Number G4740.
1. firm condition, steadfastness: of mind
It has nothing to do with the believer having to maintain his eternal salvation. It has to do with maintaining his spiritual momentum after salvation. His stability. It is a warning not to be led astray by those who distort doctrine and therefore be rendered ineffective in his spiritual life.
Passages that talk about falling, falling away, are not talking about losing your salvation. They are talking about the opposite of spritual growth, which is called reversionism. The believer never stands still in his spiritual life. He is either advancing in his spiritual life or he is retrogressing. The Latin phrase is 'Qui Non Proficit Deficit'- He who does not advance, goes backwards.
I hope you will take the time to go into the following resource concerning reversionism.
Hi CW2L. I just noticed your post. Since its late and I'm tired, I'll just address a few of these verses.
1.) Mark 13:13 “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Mark 13:13 is a parallel passage with Matthew 24:13 and is talking about the fact that tribulational believers who survive to the end of the tribulation will go into the Millennial kingdom. It is a reference to the tribulational believers deliverance by the Lord's return at the Second Advent. It is in no way talking about a believer having to maintain obedience to the end of his life in order to be saved. Though he certainly should be obedient. But his eternal salvation does not depend on it.
2.) 1 John 2:3-6 "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [5] But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: [6] Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
When a person first accepts Christ as Savior, he doesn't know Christ other than what the Gospel message conveys for the purpose of salvation. It takes time and effort learning Bible doctrine to come to know Christ. That is why the believer is under the following commands:
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and for ever. Amen.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1 John 2:6 doesn't say, ''Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
1 John 2:6 says, the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
The word translated 'ought' is the Greek word OPHEILEI. Strong's number G3784 1) to owe
a) to owe money, be in debt for
1) that which is due, the debt
2) metaph. the goodwill due
Because the believer has been saved by Christ, because he has been brought with a price, the believer owes Christ obedience and should live accordingly. After salvation the believer is expected to grow spiritually. But his eternal salvation doesn't depend on it. His eternal rewards do, and so does the quality of his spiritual life while on earth, but not his eternal salvation.
3.) 2 Peter 3:17 "Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position."
It's not 'your secure position.' It is steadfastness.
The Greek word is STERIGMOS- steadfastness. Strong's Number G4740.
1. firm condition, steadfastness: of mind
It has nothing to do with the believer having to maintain his eternal salvation. It has to do with maintaining his spiritual momentum after salvation. His stability. It is a warning not to be led astray by those who distort doctrine and therefore be rendered ineffective in his spiritual life.
Passages that talk about falling, falling away, are not talking about losing your salvation. They are talking about the opposite of spritual growth, which is called reversionism. The believer never stands still in his spiritual life. He is either advancing in his spiritual life or he is retrogressing. The Latin phrase is 'Qui Non Proficit Deficit'- He who does not advance, goes backwards.
I hope you will take the time to go into the following resource concerning reversionism.
Thank you so much Mike. I understand a lot better now and appreciate you taking the time to help me learn more about the Bible.
You're welcome!!! I was so tired when I posted that, that I didn't notice all the grammatical mistakes in the link on reversionism that I provided or I would have chosen a different resource on the subject. Still, it explains it well enough.
There are so many passages which are simply misunderstood, but when/if they finally are understood, it changes everything. It's a shame that so many people don't realize that once you are saved through faith alone in Christ alone, there is absolutely nothing you can do to affect your perfect standing with God which is based on your position in Christ and on the fact that God the Father has also imputed His very own righteousness to you. No matter what you do as a believer, God sees only His righteousness in you. And on that basis, He has pronounced you justified. We are kept eternally secure by the power of God. And that's a good thing.
There are so many passages which are simply misunderstood, but when/if they finally are understood, it changes everything. It's a shame that so many people don't realize that once you are saved through faith alone in Christ alone, there is absolutely nothing you can do to affect your perfect standing with God which is based on your position in Christ and on the fact that God the Father has also imputed His very own righteousness to you. No matter what you do as a believer, God sees only His righteousness in you. And on that basis, He has pronounced you justified. We are kept eternally secure by the power of God. And that's a good thing.
We are all eternally secure when it comes to our pathway to God. We can take ourselves down paths of destruction and suffer loss, but God will never forsake us.
Someone may not yet know that God will not forsake them, but their unbelief has nothing to do with Gods action in our lives.
As we come to believe (through the process of Gods love for us first) we understand the accountability we have for our life, we understand that as believers being given more, we are accountable for more.
So many are in fear of their salvation because of that misunderstanding, however, some see this teaching to mean they will not have to give an account for their life. that is untrue.
We are all eternally secure when it comes to our pathway to God. We can take ourselves down paths of destruction and suffer loss, but God will never forsake us.
Someone may not yet know that God will not forsake them, but their unbelief has nothing to do with Gods action in our lives.
As we come to believe (through the process of Gods love for us first) we understand the accountability we have for our life, we understand that as believers being given more, we are accountable for more.
So many are in fear of their salvation because of that misunderstanding, however, some see this teaching to mean they will not have to give an account for their life. that is untrue.
It figures that a universalist would try to pervert the principle of the eternal security of the believer into a promotion of the heresy of universalism.
Unless he comes to believe in Christ for salvation, the unbeliever is on his way to hell. Period!!!
It figures that a universalist would try to pervert the principle of the eternal security of the believer into a promotion of the heresy of universalism.
Unless he comes to believe in Christ for salvation, the unbeliever is on his way to hell. Period!!!
It figures that a universalist would try to pervert the principle of the eternal security of the believer into a promotion of the heresy of universalism.
Unless he comes to believe in Christ for salvation, the unbeliever is on his way to hell. Period!!!
We agree upon the basic principal of security and you can't do anything about it.
Amen Mike, Security in the Almighty. Believers should stop being in fear.
You can`t loose your salvation! It`s clear, if you go away from the Church, then you never were in the Church. You were of us but never from us. Just one more goat in the church. Let God separate the good and the bad fruits, God only know the hearth!
You can`t loose your salvation! It`s clear, if you go away from the Church, then you never were in the Church. You were of us but never from us. Just one more goat in the church. Let God separate the good and the bad fruits, God only know the hearth!
Actually that is not true, Mike has made a very good point that once you believe it doesn't matter what you do, you cannot lose.
You can`t loose your salvation! It`s clear, if you go away from the Church, then you never were in the Church. You were of us but never from us. Just one more goat in the church. Let God separate the good and the bad fruits, God only know the hearth!
James 5
[19] Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[20] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
OSAS is false doctrine; it's heresy -- and no heretic will inherit the kingdom of God; it is written.
Galatians 5
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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I was so tired when I posted that, that I didn't notice all the grammatical mistakes in the link on reversionism that I provided or I would have chosen a different resource on the subject. Still, it explains it well enough.
