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Old 10-21-2009, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Anyone who died in their sins is lost forever?
Yes, according to God's Word.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come
    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    Spiritual death he meant. See Ro 6:2. So then he calls those dead who are not regenerated: for as the immortality of those who are damned is not life, so this knitting together of body and soul is properly not life, but death in those who are not ruled by the Spirit of God.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come
    Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
    Hath quickened us together with Christ. As he quickened Christ and raised him, so when we were dead in sins he gave us spiritual life by the gospel and lifted us to a new life.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come
    Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
    Being dead in your sins. He that is dead in sins is without spiritual or eternal life. To be dead to sin is to be delivered from its power.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come
    Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry
    See Eph 2:1-6. It was a spiritual resurrection. They began to be merry. Gladness should be manifested by all saints at the repentance of sinners.
If a sinner dies a physical death, and is burried in his sin, having not received Jesus Christ as their Savior, he/she is lost forever.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I would underline the MOUTH of God part because scripture is from the pen of man, not the mouth of God but that is another debate altogether.

I understand what you are trying to convey here but Jesus came saying that the Law was not able to cure the disease of the conscience. He kept the Law because of his being a Jew but when it came to healing a sick woman on the sabbath he healed her... so apparently that commandment is not set in stone.. pun intended.

I think the bible is valuable to but I don't think it is God breathed or holy. God is holy but the bible is just a book. When you say that it is more than a book of instruction you come close to making it an idol. The bible is not alive. It is a book with words that have different meaning then than now. For example.. the valley of Hinnom was commonly known during that time but now it is just a valley. Also the word RACA means nothing to us now but then it did....so if the meaning and use of words can vary from generation to generation then the bible not changing really tells us that it is a recording of things meant for that specific time not for us to follow word for word.



I understand what you are saying, I just don't know how you can see the transition between the old and the new yet still propose that the old is more or equally relevant given that the new is a greater and better promise. What is better about it if it is just the same as the old?

I see that you are burdening yourself with things like this when there are about 15 verses that expressly state that Christ brought freedom in the new not slavery to the old.

But thanks for the explanation of your views.
You're welcome.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:39 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,565,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Spiritual death he meant...
Yes of course it was a spiritual death and resurrection. But they were "dead in their sins" nonetheless according to scriptural usage of the phrase.


Quote:
If a sinner dies a physical death, and is burried in his sin, having not received Jesus Christ as their Savior, is lost forever.
No such scripture.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Yes of course it was a spiritual death and resurrection. But they were "dead in their sins" nonetheless according to scriptural usage of the phrase.


No such scripture.
...hummm...You just don't want to see TKC...here's just a couple of the hundreds readily available to those who care to know the truth...

Ezekiel 18

(21) God sheweth how He dealeth with a wicked man repenting: (24) with a just man revolting. (25) He defendeth His justice, (31) and exhortedth to repentance.
************
21)But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22)All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done, he shall live.
23)Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24)But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them he shall die.
25)Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26) When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27)Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28)Because he considereth, and turnetth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29)Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Isreal, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30)Therfore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31)Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32)For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yoursleves, and live ye.


Crystal clear. You will live in righteousness. You will die in your sins...your very soul will die forever in your sins if you do not turn...if you do not repent. And anyone that says different, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Oh, and here is just one more...

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

The penalty for disobedience is death.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:58 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,565,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...hummm...You just don't want to see TKC...here's just a couple of the hundreds readily available to those who care to know the truth...
That's your assumption Verna... I did see it that way most of my life.

Quote:
Crystal clear. You will live in righteousness. You will die in your sins...your very soul will die forever in your sins if you do not turn...if you do not repent. And anyone that says different, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Here is the part you added that's not in the passages... "...your very soul will die forever in your sins..." You also assumed it's talking about physical death.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
That's your assumption Verna... I did see it that way most of my life.

Here is the part you added that's not in the passages... "...your very soul will die forever in your sins..." You also assumed it's talking about physical death.
Yes, if you die a physical death in your sins, your soul dies forever in that sin...then at the Great White Throne of Judgement, the unregenerated soul will forever be dead...gone...done...dead.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:03 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,565,273 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Oh, and here is just one more...


2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.
Yes, you want me to believe the KJV translation "everlasting" is correct. But other translations disagree. What to do? Which translation should I trust?? I choose to look up all the passages containing aionion or olam consequences of sin and guess what? There are several examples where they are not "everlasting" according to the context.

Quote:
The penalty for disobedience is death.
No disagreement there. But the last enemy death will be destroyed... swallowed up in victory.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Yes, you want me to believe the KJV translation "everlasting" is correct. But other translations disagree. What to do? Which translation should I trust?? I choose to look up all the passages containing aionion or olam consequences of sin and guess what? There are several examples where they are not "everlasting" according to the context.

No disagreement there. But the last enemy death will be destroyed... swallowed up in victory.
Then you and I have have nothing more to discuss then, do we. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Good night.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:07 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,565,273 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Yes, if you die a physical death in your sins, your soul dies forever in that sin...then at the Great White Throne of Judgement, the unregenerated soul will forever be dead...gone...done...dead.
Again, no such scripture. Show me any scripture with the words "physical death" and "lost forever" It's all based on the translation of aionion and owlam as "everlasting".
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:09 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,565,273 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Then you and I have have nothing more to discuss then, do we. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Good night.
Ok... good night...
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