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I think we are possibly starting to get somewhere.
YES. UR teaches Jesus came to save all and HE DID save all and that we NEED to FOLLOW Him. NOW... let me fix the rest of your statement so that it still continues to follow the truth of what UR teaches: IF we do not REALIZE that, then as the Good Shepherd that He is, Jesus Christ will LEAVE the 99 to save THAT ONE that is LOST. The one who is lost, is the one who is in darkness is the ONE who is IN NEED of a SAVIOUR. A saviour SAVES the LOST. The one who is in darkness does not YET KNOW or UNDERSTAND the LOVE of God. People see sin as "doing what they want to do". Sin is not that. Sin is NON-LOVE:
Look at this:
Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Gal 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself
Sin is NON-LOVE. That which is AGAINST the LAW.... is NON-LOVE.
It isn't "doing what you want to do". The path of non-love (or sin) leads to DESTRUCTION. ALL non-love is being DESTROYED. Jesus Christ is the SAVIOUR of ALL MANKIND, especially those who believe. LOVE is the fulfillment of the law.
People need to see the predicament of others in the TRUE light. There are some people I know who are ET believers (in real life, not necessarily here) that are UPSET when thinking of those who do not YET believe being saved. They are upset BECAUSE they think that they (the believer) is MISSING OUT on "getting to sin" and missing out on "a good time". YES! There are ET believers I KNOW who look at it this way. This is why they get so hardened, because they feel there is something GOOD or FUN that they are missing out on!!!! That is so sad to me! They do not yet see LIFE in Christ! If they did, they would NEVER think those things. Why would you, having been brought OUT of the darkness into the LIGHT, look back at those YET STILL in the darkness and be ENVIOUS or RESENTFUL??? (Hint: because they themselves are still also, in a degree of darkness. They do not yet understand the POWER of love and the destructive nature of NON-LOVE. They still do NOT fully understand God's plan and why Jesus CAME.) This is why in some people, the heart starts to become hardened and uncaring and even starting to feel that others DESERVE hell. There has to be, afterall, some sort of REWARD for them not sinning anymore, right?? SEE. The words always reveal the heart.
It's ok, though. Because God is repairing all of this. God is repairing all of our hearts so they will be fit for His kingdom. But it is in HIS timing. HE reveals and conceals at different times to different people. He KNOWS what HE is doing. He is the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE.
Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL mankind, ESPECIALLY those who believe. Those people need to go back and read the story of the Prodigal Son again. AND again. and let it really, truly sink in. God is trying to tell you something.
Ok, back to "ESPECIALLY". It says that for a reason.
Yes. ALL are SAVED, Jesus IS saviour.
But those who believe, are ESPECIALLY saved, because they see LIFE in CHRIST NOW. They have been made SPIRITUALLY alive. Hence the "Especially".
The Gospel is very simple. YET it has amazing Depth in what it truly means. In what it is truly conveying to the human mind, heart and spirit.
The power of God's love is unfathomable. It is the MOST powerful thing in this universe. ALL will come under it's transforming power. ALL will finally find what they've been looking for their entire lives: GOD. Some just don't realize WHO GOD IS or that it WAS God that they were so desperately seeking. GOD CONCEALS and REVEALS for a reason. FOR HIS GLORY.
God's plan is PERFECT. FLAWLESS.
His plan is steadily unfolding before our eyes.
Every KNEE Will BOW.
Every tongue WILL confess.
When HE reveals.... THAT is when a human heart is transformed.
IT is ALL in HIS timing.
He ALLOWS us to walk in darkness. EACH in our own timing.
But again, it is for His glory and for a much bigger purpose.
Our loving Father REVEALS to some and CONCEALS Himself from others.
But it is only for a season.
There will be endless testimonies to the POWER of LOVE (God is love) and the weak, destructive nature of NON-LOVE. This is part of the reason for the revealing and concealing, I suspect.
We are ALL God's children.
HE has a plan for EACH and everyone of His children.
We are ALL in the palm of His hand.
YES, He notes the death of a sparrow....
And HE knows the number of hairs on your heard.
You can absolutely TRUST Him with your LIFE dear one.
There is MUCH in this world that is on the wide path to destruction.
THIS IS GOOD NEWS!! Good news.
All NON-LOVE is the on the path to destruction.
That which is within us (our CARNAL man) is on the path to destruction.
We were subjected to frustration (this CARNALITY):
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
God has started a work in EACH and EVERY one of us.
He SUBJECTED each of us to this FRUSTRATION/VANITY (our CARNALITY, this CARNAL man that we ALL have within.)
This carnality is on the path to destruction.
You know that old rapture verse: "there will two man in a field, one will be taken away and one will be left behind" YES, brothers and sisters, there will be TWO men in a field, and ONE will be left behind. Don't you SEE? It is ONE human being, but there will be ONE NATURE left behind. That CARNAL MAN within us (that we were subjected to).... THAT is the man that will be left behind.
His fire is a refining fire, make no mistake about it.
He will refine ALL until He see's HIS image reflecting back at Him.
HE WILL BE ALL IN ALL.
REJOICE.
ALL will one day come out of the darkness into HIS glorious light.
peace.
Now remember... Where there is LOVE, there is NO NEED for the LAW, for there is NOTHING EVIL to RESTRAIN. We are all slowly walking on the path to learning this. WE are all slowly walking on a path to discovering who our BEAUTIFUL Creator truly is. Look around you at what HE put all around us. Look all around you, my brothers and sisters. Look at the majesty, the wonder, the endless wonder... this is just the beginning. Eye has not seen, nor ear heard what God has in store for those who love Him.
Guess who is going to love Him?
EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF HIS HUMAN BEINGS HE HAS EVER CREATED.
HE would NEVER settle for LESS.
How could HE...?
Peace.
May God wrap His loving arms around you, and may His transforming love envelop your heart.
sparrow
The people who are upset that they "don't get to sin" and are "missing out of the fun" aren't true Christians or are extremely immature Christians IMO.
1 Timothy 4:10- If UR was true, the rest of the verse would have no meaning whatsoever when it says "especially of those who believe"
Regarding Matthew 24:40-41- The man that will be left behind is the nonbeliever in Christ's 2nd coming. Not a carnal man/nature!
Here's something to ponder: how do these verses not contradict UR? I'm curious to see your answer.
Matthew 13:36-43 "Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field." He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels."As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."
Matthew 25:1-13 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep." At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'" But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut." Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'" But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'" Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Luke 13:23-30 "Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' "But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'" Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'" There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
Last edited by CantWait2Leave; 03-26-2010 at 02:21 AM..
My best friend is Catholic and while I disagree with some of their views, they still believe in the same gospel I do.
That's no gospel at all. A Christian is someone who rejoices that his sins are forgiven. A man who goes to Mass declares himself no Christian, because he goes to accept a sacrifice for his sins.
My best friend is Catholic and while I disagree with some of their views, they still believe in the same gospel I do.
I was talking with my husband, brother and mother who all grew up as Christians and none of them had ever heard of UR. I've been a Christian for 19 years and I had never heard of UR before a week or two ago when I came on here. I took an apologetics class and universalism was never brought up. I knew all about predestination, but the idea of everyone being saved is so foreign to me. Well, was foreign.
I understand and it is not a bad question. More study on church history (which is a sordid tale BTW) makes it clear (to me) how the message was purposely tainted.
Regarding Matthew 24:40-41- The man that will be left behind is the nonbeliever in Christ's 2nd coming. Not a carnal man/nature!
Actually it makes no mention of which was taken or left. In Noah's day, and at Sodom and Gomorrah, and with the Red sea/Egyptians - in ALL cases the wicked were taken away. The meek shall inherit the earth, remember?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave
Here's something to ponder: how do these verses not contradict UR? I'm curious to see your answer.
Matthew 13:36-43 "Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field." He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels."As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."
Matthew 25:1-13 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep." At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'" But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut." Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'" But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'" Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Luke 13:23-30 "Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' "But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'" Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'" There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
None of these verses say a single word about eternal torment and infinite hopelessness. That is read into the text by preconceived ideas concocted by theologians about what "the kingdom of heaven" is. The very fact that most believe it is far off somewhere else tells me that church tradition has more hold on the minds of Christians than anything else. AISI.
I am not one bit ashamed to say that I do not deserve for my flesh to burn forever, while I cry out and beg for mercy, and weep and repent and cry some more, while the flesh on my body keeps sizzling throughout endless ages. No. I do not. Neither do you. Neither does anyone. Yes, we are all sinners. Yes, we need to live a life as sinless as possible, and repent of our sins, and we deserve correction by God. But nobody, NOBODY, deserves to be set ablaze from now until........the end of time.....?..... no.....there's no until anything with ET doctrine............ from now on with no end. No. I do not deserve that.
IMO when people say, "I deserve hell," they are being self-righteous to make such a statement. They only say that to make themselves look humble. If they really think that, I'm pretty sure if God set them on fire right now, their opinion of whether or not they deserve it would change pretty quickly.
I imagine some will try to blast me for this statement, telling me I deserve hell, but I don't care. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we deserve to be tortured forever.
There is nothing worse in life seeing someone hurting on the inside , their pain and suffering is enough for the worst of us to be at the very least a shoulder to cry on , and yet we believe our God who is love would have the lost eternally tormented just for losing their way ? .
I believe: Jesus came to save all, but part of His plan of salvation is that we must accept this gift. We need to follow Him, but if we follow someone else, we will end up in hell.
Then you believe Jesus failed. Jesus came to save all, but He's just not going to be able to do it. He's hoping people will accept Him, but some just won't.
Yet no one can choose Him, until God enables them to believe!
Yet no one can choose Him, until God enables them to believe!
God not only enables all to believe, he commands all to believe.
It does not matter what we do, God wins.
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YES! There are ET believers I KNOW who look at it this way. This is why they get so hardened, because they feel there is something GOOD or FUN that they are missing out on!!!! That is so sad to me! They do not yet see LIFE in Christ! If they did, they would NEVER think those things. Why would you, having been brought OUT of the darkness into the LIGHT, look back at those YET STILL in the darkness and be ENVIOUS or RESENTFUL??? (Hint: because they themselves are still also, in a degree of darkness. They do not yet understand the POWER of love and the destructive nature of NON-LOVE. They still do NOT fully understand God's plan and why Jesus CAME.) This is why in some people, the heart starts to become hardened and uncaring and even starting to feel that others DESERVE hell. There has to be, afterall, some sort of REWARD for them not sinning anymore, right?? 
