Why would the fundamental christian god want to burn the lost eternally ? (presbyterian, punishment)

[Amperage]

Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave

I 100% know what UR is ALL about. Go ask Bright Hope for Tomorrow or some other universalist. I will not and cannot believe in a doctrine that goes against God's Word. It is not legitimate because you have to ignore Matthew 25:34-46, Matthew 7:21-23, Luke 13:23-30, Matthew 25:1-13, James 1:21, Matthew 13:36-43, etc.. You MUST ignore scripture to believe in UR. I will not do that. I have prayed for the Lord to show me the truth and He has and the truth is not UR.

Because obviously yours must be the 100% correct interpretation of the word.

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known." I remember reading that somewhere once. But hey I'm sure that doesn't apply to your knowledge of the word.

I don't think UR ignores the scriptures at all. It mostly comes down to an interpretation of certain phrases like "eternal". It's my belief that certain verses must be ignored for one to NOT believe in UR so go figure I guess.

Hey I could be wrong. I know I love God with all my heart, mind, and soul and I try to seek the kingdom of God first and just hope all the rest is added eventually

[CantWait2Leave]

Originally Posted by Amperage

Because obviously yours must be the 100% correct interpretation of the word.

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known." I remember reading that somewhere once. But hey I'm sure that doesn't apply to your knowledge of the word.

I don't think UR ignores the scriptures at all. It mostly comes down to an interpretation of certain phrases like "eternal". It's my belief that certain verses must be ignored for one to NOT believe in UR so go figure I guess.

Hey I could be wrong. I know I love God with all my heart, mind, and soul and I try to seek the kingdom of God first and just hope all the rest is added eventually

I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. God would not have His Word become tainted because that is where we learn about Him from. To believe in UR, you have to twist scripture. I believe in ALL the Bible and don't twist or change anything to fit what I believe.

[meerkat2]

Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave

God saves, but part of His salvation plan is accepting this gift (James 1:21). How am I supposed to answer the last question? I have no idea why God does the things He does. That answer isn't in the Bible so clearly God didn't think it was important for us to know.

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Thing might shed a little light on what is happening -- the Holy Spirit is to be our guide not the theologians and teachers - the bible has everything in it but it takes the Holy Spirit to reveal what is truth.

You can not pit one scripture against another because there is scriptural support for all doctrines universalism, calvinism, arminianism, preterism,

The bible needs to be rightly divided.

[meerkat2]

Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave

1.The people in the OT were saved through faith in God. They believed in God's word as much as was revealed to them. They knew their own sinfulness. The reason why did all the things God told them to do and the reason why they would carry out sacrifices was an outworking of an inward faith.

2. Here is a link below that answers your next question.

What of Those Who Never Heard?

What about gentiles before the time of Christ, the Israelites were only a small number of people, compared to the rest of humanity, what of all those that have had no chance to believe in Jesus up to now?

[herefornow]

Originally Posted by meerkat2

What about gentiles before the time of Christ, the Israelites were only a small number of people, compared to the rest of humanity, what of all those that have had no chance to believe in Jesus up to now?

And I believe the people praising God before the throne are INNUMERABLE!

Revelation 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.


Innumerable: adj. Too numerous to be counted; numberless.

[TJenkins602]

"Your flesh will soon be gone. Your soul, though, is indestructible, and is either guilty, if not justified by Christ, or innocent, if justified. And after death, the justified cannot become unjustified, and the unjustified cannot become justified- because there is no time after death. Whatever we are, we stay. We are either reprobate by nature, or we are noble by nature. That's the way we choose to be, and nothing can change it.

This is not Calvinism. Calvinists claim to know who is reprobate, and who is not. But nobody knows who is who- though we may know about ourselves."

Ah yes, the immortal soul. We all believe in this immortal soul while there are passages in the Bible that talk about man being a living soul, and the soul dying and there are passages that say that God can destroy the soul. Yes, we do have an indestructable soul indeed.

[shibata]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Here's a picture I took of a Baptist sign in my home town.
They are a Calvinist type Baptist church in that they believe
in the sovereignty of God.

They think that God commits murder, iow.

But even if one does not know that, what is there about this sign that bellows to passers-by that this 'church' is not Christian?

[herefornow]

Originally Posted by TJenkins602

"Your flesh will soon be gone. Your soul, though, is indestructible, and is either guilty, if not justified by Christ, or innocent, if justified. And after death, the justified cannot become unjustified, and the unjustified cannot become justified- because there is no time after death. Whatever we are, we stay. We are either reprobate by nature, or we are noble by nature. That's the way we choose to be, and nothing can change it.

This is not Calvinism. Calvinists claim to know who is reprobate, and who is not. But nobody knows who is who- though we may know about ourselves."

Ah yes, the immortal soul. We all believe in this immortal soul while there are passages in the Bible that talk about man being a living soul, and the soul dying and there are passages that say that God can destroy the soul. Yes, we do have an indestructable soul indeed.

The soul is not indestructible. The Old Testament never said such things. That is Egyptian, Babylonian, Platonic thought. That is man-made philosophy.

[meerkat2]

Originally Posted by TJenkins602

"Your flesh will soon be gone. Your soul, though, is indestructible, and is either guilty, if not justified by Christ, or innocent, if justified. And after death, the justified cannot become unjustified, and the unjustified cannot become justified- because there is no time after death. Whatever we are, we stay. We are either reprobate by nature, or we are noble by nature. That's the way we choose to be, and nothing can change it.

This is not Calvinism. Calvinists claim to know who is reprobate, and who is not. But nobody knows who is who- though we may know about ourselves."

Ah yes, the immortal soul. We all believe in this immortal soul while there are passages in the Bible that talk about man being a living soul, and the soul dying and there are passages that say that God can destroy the soul. Yes, we do have an indestructable soul indeed.

Rubbish to an immortal soul

You are right that God does say that he can destroy the body and soul

and also the word of God divides the soul from the spirit

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by shibata

They think that God commits murder, iow.

But even if one does not know that, what is there about this sign that bellows to passers-by that this 'church' is not Christian?

God murders no one. The Bible says "God kills and makes alive." A murderer cannot bring back the murdered to life.

I did not intimate that the church with that sign was not Christian.