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You are really saved when you first believed and then stand before man and confess that Jesus is Lord and your deliverer. Salvation is a action word.
Salvation is of the Lord not our confession. Salvation is all for the Glory of God for himself, by himself through himself. Who are we to deem anyone saved because of some confession? That is indeed the jugement of God who sets in place his spirit on you and writes his law on your heart.
Our confessions stand for nothing when it is not backed by Grace through Faith which God has given us as a free gift so that we may not boast (of our own works and ability). So, our salvation is never dependant on our manly confessions but God's mercy, God's Grace and God's choice.
Salvation is of the Lord not our confession. Salvation is all for the Glory of God for himself, by himself through himself. Who are we to deem anyone saved because of some confession? That is indeed the jugement of God who sets in place his spirit on you and writes his law on your heart.
Our confessions stand for nothing when it is not backed by Grace through Faith which God has given us as a free gift so that we may not boast (of our own works and ability). So, our salvation is never dependant on our manly confessions but God's mercy, God's Grace and God's choice.
AMEN! and Paul said:
"For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." (Romans 11:32)
So that Grace is given to ALL MEN for his name's sake.
Psalm 106:8 Nevertheless He saved them for the sake of His name, That He might make His power known.
Hebrews 6:17-18 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. God did this so that, by two unchangeable (immutable) things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.
In your opinion what the bible states is immutable or God's promise to save people from their sins is immutable?
Matt. 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.
Luke 12:6 "Are not five sparrows sold for two cents? Yet not one of them is forgotten before God.
Apparently Luke had a coupon for his sparrows.. yet do we even buy and sell sparrows today?
You must see that the whole bible was written in a different time and culture than ours today. We would say that analogy differently because we don't value sparrows in the same way. For a farmer it may be the corn is not forgotten.. or to a computer designer it is silicon that is not forgotten by God... but the actual purpose of the analogy DOES apply.
So when you say that certain things apply to us... I am saying they do not, yet the underlying teaching may apply.
Luke 5:41 Then Jesus ordered him, "Don't tell anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them."
Does this apply to us now? It didn't even apply to anyone after the death of Christ, right?
This is what I am saying.. the bible was not written to us now... it was written, read and acted upon by those in the 1st century long before all of it was put together for us to read.
There is application ... but saying there are deceivers in the world and to watch out for them because this verse or that verse says to is hardly accurate as the verse was not written to us.. it was written to them.
Once you read the bible in context (the first century) you will see that the part that is immutable is this:
1 Corinthians 13:13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Matthew 9:13 "But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Those two are most important.. Love God and Love one another as yourself.
As in you don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved?
I just wanted to add that UR teaches that eventually all will come to Christ and bow before him and confess him willingly and joyously as their lord and savior, either in this life by baptism of the spirit, or in after the judgment when they have been baptized by fire ... One cannot be saved without first coming to accept Christ as savior, but we do not believe that one must accept Christ as savior before they die. UR teaches that Gods judgments are for the purpose of reconciling those who are so judged, to teach them righteousness ...
The controversy between the Universalists, and the conventional concept of salvation (that only some will be saved) can be compared to a big league ball game. Let's say Jesus goes and talks to the game stadium management, and says "I will pay the entrance fee for ALL the people that are willing to come to the game, from here on out, for forever". So he gives the management a big blank check to cover the cost, backed up by the bank in heaven.
Then, when word gets out, some people go "Wow! A free game? For forever? Cool!...I'm going!"
Other people, upon hearing the word, go "that's garbage and bunk...nothing is free...I don't believe it, I'm not going..."
Likewise, the UR people are basically saying EVERYBODY is going to heaven, simply because the entry fee has been payed. However, while it is true that the entry fee has been payed for everyone, and that God has invited everyone to come, the problem is that many will not believe it, and therefore will not go...they won't show up. God is not going to "shove a gun in their back", and force them to go...
So it is with salvation: many simply refuse to believe, and will not enter in, despite the fact that Christ payed their way with his death and ressurrection on the cross. Sad...
The controversy between the Universalists, and the conventional concept of salvation (that only some will be saved) can be compared to a big league ball game. Let's say Jesus goes and talks to the game stadium management, and says "I will pay the entrance fee for ALL the people that are willing to come to the game, from here on out, for forever". So he gives the management a big blank check to cover the cost, backed up by the bank in heaven.
Then, when word gets out, some people go "Wow! A free game? For forever? Cool!...I'm going!"
Other people, upon hearing the word, go "that's garbage and bunk...nothing is free...I don't believe it, I'm not going..."
Likewise, the UR people are basically saying EVERYBODY is going to heaven, simply because the entry fee has been payed. However, while it is true that the entry fee has been payed for everyone, and that God has invited everyone to come, the problem is that many will not believe it, and therefore will not go...they won't show up. God is not going to "shove a gun in their back", and force them to go...
So it is with salvation: many simply refuse to believe, and will not enter in, despite the fact that Christ payed their way with his death and ressurrection on the cross. Sad...
Bud
Interesting. So does this mean you (UR's) don't believe that we are chosen? Or all are chosen and some believe?
By not forcing you are saying someone like a devil worshiper won’t be forced into heaven?
The controversy between the Universalists, and the conventional concept of salvation (that only some will be saved) can be compared to a big league ball game. Let's say Jesus goes and talks to the game stadium management, and says "I will pay the entrance fee for ALL the people that are willing to come to the game, from here on out, for forever". So he gives the management a big blank check to cover the cost, backed up by the bank in heaven.
Then, when word gets out, some people go "Wow! A free game? For forever? Cool!...I'm going!"
Other people, upon hearing the word, go "that's garbage and bunk...nothing is free...I don't believe it, I'm not going..."
Likewise, the UR people are basically saying EVERYBODY is going to heaven, simply because the entry fee has been payed. However, while it is true that the entry fee has been payed for everyone, and that God has invited everyone to come, the problem is that many will not believe it, and therefore will not go...they won't show up. God is not going to "shove a gun in their back", and force them to go...
So it is with salvation: many simply refuse to believe, and will not enter in, despite the fact that Christ payed their way with his death and ressurrection on the cross. Sad...
Bud
I understand your analogy, but it does not line up with scripture ... According to scripture it is clear that eventually every one will bow in worship and confess that Christ is their lord. Something that they could not truly do without the power of the holy spirit, again according to scripture ...
Phl 2:11
And that every tongue should confess(exomologeō) that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The word here translated as confess is exomologeō, and it means to confess willingly and joyously, to celebrate, etc. ... It does not mean to confess grudgingly or against ones will, or in duress ...
and...
1Cr 12:3
wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus is anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus is Lord, except in the Holy Spirit.
It is written, and it shall come to pass ... So in answer to your analogy, eventually everyone will gladly come to the game and joyously celebrate the one who paid their way ...
Jhn 12:32
and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth,will drawall menunto myself.'
The controversy between the Universalists, and the conventional concept of salvation (that only some will be saved) can be compared to a big league ball game. Let's say Jesus goes and talks to the game stadium management, and says "I will pay the entrance fee for ALL the people that are willing to come to the game, from here on out, for forever". So he gives the management a big blank check to cover the cost, backed up by the bank in heaven.
Then, when word gets out, some people go "Wow! A free game? For forever? Cool!...I'm going!"
Other people, upon hearing the word, go "that's garbage and bunk...nothing is free...I don't believe it, I'm not going..."
Likewise, the UR people are basically saying EVERYBODY is going to heaven, simply because the entry fee has been payed. However, while it is true that the entry fee has been payed for everyone, and that God has invited everyone to come, the problem is that many will not believe it, and therefore will not go...they won't show up. God is not going to "shove a gun in their back", and force them to go...
So it is with salvation: many simply refuse to believe, and will not enter in, despite the fact that Christ payed their way with his death and ressurrection on the cross. Sad...
Bud
One slight problem with that analogy... you can't choose to bypass death.
So if Jesus paid for your entry into Heaven (for example) then all people would be in heaven. You choose to watch a ballgame... you don't choose to die.
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Those two are most important.. Love God and Love one another as yourself.
