Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A living soul is only possible with Christ. You must believe, otherwise you are dead....no life. If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spiritthat dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans 8:9-13
A couple things I noticed about this passage and what you say about a living soul...
First,
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Other versions have "living creature" rather than living soul...
Jumping to the end:
Rev. 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Other versions have "living thing" so not only does "living soul" cover humans but animals/fish as well.
2 verses from the middle-
1 Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Ezekiel 18:4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
So none of these say that man is only a living soul when he is a Christian...
But rather it states that everything that breathes is a living soul.
Now in looking at the passage you quoted above:
I noticed first that you left out Romans 8:6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
It is the mind controlled by sin that is death but the mind controlled by spirit that is life and peace.
The other thing I notice is that you say a person is dead if not a believer yet verse 13 states: for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live;
If your mind (decision-making) is controlled by sin you are about to die or dying in your sin (need to be saved), if your mind (decision-making) is controlled by the spirit (no need to be saved) then you will (not are but WILL) live.
So I have no idea where you get that a "living soul" is something that happens when one becomes a Christian or a believer....
Is this what the Calvinists teach or is this your own idea?
A couple things I noticed about this passage and what you say about a living soul...
First,
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Other versions have "living creature" rather than living soul...
Jumping to the end:
Rev. 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Other versions have "living thing" so not only does "living soul" cover humans but animals/fish as well.
2 verses from the middle-
1 Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Ezekiel 18:4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
So none of these say that man is only a living soul when he is a Christian...
But rather it states that everything that breathes is a living soul.
Now in looking at the passage you quoted above:
I noticed first that you left out Romans 8:6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
It is the mind controlled by sin that is death but the mind controlled by spirit that is life and peace.
The other thing I notice is that you say a person is dead if not a believer yet verse 13 states: for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live;
If your mind (decision-making) is controlled by sin you are about to die or dying in your sin (need to be saved), if your mind (decision-making) is controlled by the spirit (no need to be saved) then you will (not are but WILL) live.
So I have no idea where you get that a "living soul" is something that happens when one becomes a Christian or a believer....
Is this what the Calvinists teach or is this your own idea?
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
I think you have taken this verse out of context. Look at 1 Peter 1:10-12
"Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find oute time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things."
You see, the gospel message was revealed much earlier on in history through the prophets, who spoke of Christ's coming and the salvation He would provide. They learned of the gospel message through the Holy Spirit. Look at your verse; it says that the message was preached to those who are now dead. It doesn't say that it is being preached now to the dead. So, it would seem likely from corroborating these two passages that Peter was referring to the prophets as they learned of the gospel in their time, thus your verse for showing repenting after death doesn't really add up here.
Gal. 6:10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Yes, because this passage talks about people reaping what they sow. It would be foolish to go out and say Christ is love, but then show only love to believers while completely disregarding those who don't believe. You not only damage the faith, but your actions will lead to sin, which will come back and bite you. Doesn't imply salvation whatsoever here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
1 Tim 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe..
Believers are only part of the ALL saved... you should keep that in mind when reading verses like:
John 3:16 - For God so loved the WORLD....that whoever believes shall be saved.
And what of the rest, the non-believers?
Romans 3:3-4 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
It is apparent to me that belief has nothing to do with God being true in saving all.
Even the disciples were called out for their unbelief... Belief is not what saves you.
Again, the passage in Romans is talking about the Jews who are trusting in the Law and not by faith in God's provision. Why else is he spending his time writing up to chapter 5 about the importance of faith, which comes only by believing as indicated by John 3:16-17? This whole passage is referring to the fulfillment of the Law in Christ and how we are justified by faith alone. How can you say belief is not important when faith comes through believing that Christ is the Son of God who came to take on the sins of the world to redeem humanity?
Yes, because this passage talks about people reaping what they sow. It would be foolish to go out and say Christ is love, but then show only love to believers while completely disregarding those who don't believe. You not only damage the faith, but your actions will lead to sin, which will come back and bite you. Doesn't imply salvation whatsoever here.
Again, the passage in Romans is talking about the Jews who are trusting in the Law and not by faith in God's provision. Why else is he spending his time writing up to chapter 5 about the importance of faith, which comes only by believing as indicated by John 3:16-17? This whole passage is referring to the fulfillment of the Law in Christ and how we are justified by faith alone. How can you say belief is not important when faith comes through believing that Christ is the Son of God who came to take on the sins of the world to redeem humanity?
If you really want to get into it the whole NT is about the transition from Judaism to Christ's gospel (Christianity) Therefore none of it can apply to us who are well after the fact. Believing in something NEW and UNSEEN is important when you are trying to establish a NEW religion...especially when it is an offshoot of another established religion....
But saved from what? If they believed Jesus and what he said then they would not die in Jerusalem (because as we know now, it was destroyed)... but does belief in Christ cause you to go to an afterlife of good rather than bad?
Really the NT and OT talk very little about any afterlife. So while I may agree with the stance you are taking on such verses I don't think you can say that one must believe in Christ in order to take part in promises established from the beginning (before Christ)... The disciples (like Abraham) had hope in salvation, they had faith that salvation would be realized once Christ returned... but they did not see salvation.....everyone of them died prior to except John...the one standing there that did not taste of death before these things came about.
But this may be worthy of another thread and not so much applicable to thus one...
This thread was about the shepherd that saves 100%.
You completely missed the "covenantal" aspect of verses you provided. Your wordproofing again to support your views. Your arguement has no ground or legs.......Covenant!
Secondly, who makes your spirit alive?
What makes your spirit dead?
You are trying to philosophize this concept when the only thing you should be doing in reagrds to anything that is Biblical, is not to think, but to read what the scripture says. And take it as truth. Believe.
You are trying to philosophize this concept when the only thing you should be doing in reagrds to anything that is Biblical, is not to think, but to read what the scripture says. And take it as truth. Believe.
This is the clearest and saddest evidence of what is wrong with religion!!! Entrapping people in sanctified ignorance as a virtue!!!
This is the clearest and saddest evidence of what is wrong with religion!!! Entrapping people in sanctified ignorance as a virtue!!!
Actually it isn't. What is the scripture is fulfilled and complete in Christ.
Theology and Philosophy do not mix at all. Once you do, you have corrupt doctrines of the Word of God., hence the gnostics since that time till now. Man is prideful, when he should be humble, as you should. The Text is enough. It has nothing to do with ignorance, but what is complete.
Why add to the complete work? Don't dare!
You are incapable of entering into the mind of God, as He is pure and YOU are not, and never will be in your Adamic state. It is your spirit which is unblemished, ONLY because of YOUR profession in faith and Christ atoning blood that clears you of your sins, is it alive in Christ. You are dead if not.
To even remotely think that you can be inside God's head, is none other than taking a bite of the tree once again. This has nothing to do with blind faith, or any other term those tend to impose on this theology, but only that which is in scripture, and God seeks in every living soul, and that is TRUST. TRUST Him in all things.
Can someone please provide us text proof that the wicked are resurrected in Christ without having to be in the covenant? Can someone please provide the text that exhorts this claim without a covenantal aspect in context?
Can someone please provide us text proof that the wicked are resurrected in Christ without having to be in the covenant? Can someone please provide the text that exhorts this claim without a covenantal aspect in context?
Sciotamicks
It seems to me that Gods covenant with Israel represents all of Adams offspring including the gentiles --- all dead.
Jesus came to redeem the lost which were under the first fleshly covenant, Adams one
All will be in the covenant but many will need to die first and be judged for deeds before they can be resurrected into the new covenant.
The first covenant is about the flesh and second is about the spirit.
This verse to me says that those that are dead and outside of the covenant get judged for deeds in the flesh and then live in the Spirit
Quote:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
