Light Rail - Where and how do we get started! (Cincinnati: condos, mortgage)

[jmecklenborg]

The most important employment areas of Hamilton County are almost all located between Downtown and Norwood and between I-71 and I-75. This is where the highest ridership and ROI exist for a transit line. Because the ridership and ROI are so high, it merits construction of a grade-separated system connecting Downtown, UC, Hospitals, and Xavier University. The Metromoves plan saw three suburban lines converging at Xavier, then sharing the same track south to Downtown. This means if one train ran on each line every 15 minutes, there would be a train every 5 minutes between Xavier and Downtown. A subway deep under Walnut Hills permits an even faster "express" service for the suburban lines because it would be shorter and have fewer stations.

So for the first line between DT and Xavier, stations would be located under Auburn at Christ Hospital, under Jefferson at Corry St. (UC), under MLK at Eden (University Hospital), under Burnett at Erkenbrecker (Children's Hospital), under Reading at Forest (Avondale), then surface to cross over Victory Parkway to Xavier University at-grade. Via Walnut Hills, a second tunnel would have a station near the casino, then deep under Gilbert at Peeble's Corner, under Woodburn at Madison, under Woodburn at Montgomery, then meet the first line at Xavier.

[hensleya1]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

They just want to project utopia. Why the duplication of rail systems within the City? If the streetcar is a viable means of transportation downtown, why not all of downtown? On the the fringes of streetcar service is where light rail should stop/originate. Otherwise the duplication is an intolerable expense.

kjbrill--

^^ This.

I just wonder how much extra business those places in West Chester and Fairfield would get, especially on big-ticket items, if Hamilton County's sales tax was raised to 8% (between the 0.25% hike from the state and the 1% proposed by Mecklenborg here)?

Something tells me that people voting with their feet would pull the rug out from any economic development that you'd see by building more mass transit.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by hensleya1

Something tells me that people voting with their feet would pull the rug out from any economic development that you'd see by building more mass transit.

Yep, they're voting with their feet alright. Straight into downtown and OTR.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Yep, they're voting with their feet alright. Straight into downtown and OTR.

A very marginal increase in downtown residents, and believe me taken as a percentage of Cincinnati population overall it is marginal, it is suddenly taken as a mass exodus to live downtown. In your wildest dreams. I have no problems with those desiring that lifestyle other than their declaring they are part of the next coming.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Yep, they're voting with their feet alright. Straight into downtown and OTR.

I think Hensley was speculating about what WOULD happen in the future if the county were to enact a substantial sales tax increase, not talking about what HAS ALREADY happened in one or two areas of Cincinnati proper at the existing tax rate.

Census data indicates that over the last several decades Hamilton County has slowly lost population. Probably a more meaningful set of figures to look at for these types of discussions than growth in individual neighborhoods, where likely some substantial number of residents have moved from elsewhere in the county anyway.

Not that development in OTR isn't a good thing. Just that I don't see how it's germane to this topic.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

Just that I don't see how it's germane to this topic.

I understood perfectly well what hen was saying, but thanks for the explanation anyway.

I have the same right as other CD participants to interject my irrelevant points. Who made you mod?

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

A very marginal increase in downtown residents, and believe me taken as a percentage of Cincinnati population overall it is marginal, it is suddenly taken as a mass exodus to live downtown. In your wildest dreams. I have no problems with those desiring that lifestyle other than their declaring they are part of the next coming.

Really gets to you, doesn't it.

But having a 12% increase, followed by slower growth because demand outpaced development is hardly marginal, though you may want to marginalize it.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

Really gets to you, doesn't it.

But having a 12% increase, followed by slower growth because demand outpaced development is hardly marginal, though you may want to marginalize it.

This is what I remember about statistics. 12% of nothing is still nothing. 12% of 2 is 1/4 quarter percent, still nothing to crow about. Before tolerating the growth of downtown, reflect it as a portion of the entire City. Not so impressive then.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

This is what I remember about statistics. 12% of nothing is still nothing. 12% of 2 is 1/4 quarter percent, still nothing to crow about. Before tolerating the growth of downtown, reflect it as a portion of the entire City. Not so impressive then.

Brill, what you don't understand (or refuse to acknowledge) is downtown Cincinnati's turn around, from a dead CBD abutting one of the worst ghettos in the nation, to a vibrant CBD abutting a redeveloping success story is good for the entire city. You don't have healthy, growing cities that have a burned out urban core. Doesn't work that way. As downtown continues to improve, and attract new residents, etc, that success will spread to other neighborhoods, and further help stabilize Cincinnati and eventually spur Cincinnati's growth. You can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to inner city Cincinnati.

Anyway, I'm outta here, hopefully this can get back to light rail, and away from population. But bringing up the vote with their feet theory sort of opened the can of worms. What many of you don't get is when a city is strong and vibrant, and is packed with amenities, then people will justify the higher cost of living. San Francisco is a perfect example.

[natininja]

I'm curious what people think would be the best line of approach for the west side.