Light Rail - Where and how do we get started! (Columbus: sales, homes)

[bertwrench]

Accomplishing the goal of having light rail in the area may seem tough, but I want to know if there are enough people on board (pun intended) to get this started. I think it would be beneficial for the entire region. Of the regulars that post on this forum, there seems to be a fair amount of support, but I will go farther than that. I think there would be large ridership from folks across the region.

First two questions - What communities would you like to see light rail serve? AND What type of support for such a project do you think there would be?

While there are many hurdles faced by a project like this, money is most likely the biggest. I don't see any way Cincinnati area light rail will be funded directly by government funds anytime soon, but I am wondering if there are alternatives for funding a project like this? Perhaps we could crowd source the funding? Advertise that accounts for construction costs have been placed on, perhaps, Facebook. Regular updates for the dollars raised and project progress could be posted. We need to find out-of-the-box ways of accomplishing such a feat.

Third and fourth questions - What are unique ways in which this project could be funded? AND How might we be able to break the mold of typical project planning and completion in order to help make this the most well planned and executed project?

Let's dare to dream big!

[unusualfire]

There is already a study and route for a system. The only question is funding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetroMoves

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

There is already a study and route for a system. The only question is funding.

MetroMoves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MetroMoves is a 10 year old proposal which was soundly defeated in 2002. BTW it also included a streetcar proposal. Yes there are current rail projects, the bureaucrats have to have something to do. or there is no reason for their jobs. But they all seem to languish at a certain point where money is required to go forward. You comment The only question is funding. But to me that is a HUGE question.

10 years after MetroMoves I see no reason to expect people to be more optimistic. In the interim we have experienced a major financial collapse, an equally significant housing industry collapse, and a level of unemployment causing people to lose their jobs and their homes. So where is this cheery attitude to build the rail system, and the money, going to come from?

Dreaming Big? I feel you have the dreaming part right.

[jmecklenborg]

Well, Kjbrill, *nearly all* metro areas in the United States have *significantly higher* taxes than Cincinnati does, and many have *exponentially higher* taxes for public transportation.

For example, most cities have 1% county sales taxes for public transportation. For example a 1% tax supports MARTA in Atlanta and BART in San Francisco. LA County has 1.5%. All of these cities have smoked Cincinnati for decades and will continue to do so. Metromoves was only a 1/2 cent sales tax.

The 1/2 cent MetroMoves tax would have raised about $60 million annually in 2002. Half of that sum would have funded an immediate expansion of Queen City Metro's bus service -- more bus service on existing routes and all-new crosstown and express routes. The remaining $30 million would have built an operated five light rail lines.

Many areas such as Los Angeles and Salt Lake City have enacted temporary taxes that will permit them to build out their systems much faster. In Hamilton County, for example, we could do a 1/2 cent permanent tax and a 1/2 cent 10-year tax that would raise $600 million above the $300 raised in 10 years for a total of $900 million. A federal match brings it to $1.8 million an state funds could give us $2 billion to build.

What does $2 billion build?

About five miles of true subway construction downtown and under UC and the hospitals -- the core of a countywide system.

That's why the countywide tax needs to be 1% permanently, or 1% with a 1/2 cent sunsetting in 30 years.

That allows us to build a big-time core subway system in the city, then extend quickly into the suburbs.

[natininja]

Once the core of a regional light rail system is built, communities around the metro would be chomping at the bit to get an extension built to their business districts.

[goyguy]

Dream big? What city did you say you were from?

[unusualfire]

Nothing wrong with dreaming big. Even NYC was the size of Cincinnati in the past. That didn't stop them from dreaming.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Well, Kjbrill, *nearly all* metro areas in the United States have *significantly higher* taxes than Cincinnati does, and many have *exponentially higher* taxes for public transportation.

For example, most cities have 1% county sales taxes for public transportation. For example a 1% tax supports MARTA in Atlanta and BART in San Francisco. LA County has 1.5%. All of these cities have smoked Cincinnati for decades and will continue to do so. Metromoves was only a 1/2 cent sales tax.

The 1/2 cent MetroMoves tax would have raised about $60 million annually in 2002. Half of that sum would have funded an immediate expansion of Queen City Metro's bus service -- more bus service on existing routes and all-new crosstown and express routes. The remaining $30 million would have built an operated five light rail lines.

Many areas such as Los Angeles and Salt Lake City have enacted temporary taxes that will permit them to build out their systems much faster. In Hamilton County, for example, we could do a 1/2 cent permanent tax and a 1/2 cent 10-year tax that would raise $600 million above the $300 raised in 10 years for a total of $900 million. A federal match brings it to $1.8 million an state funds could give us $2 billion to build.

What does $2 billion build?

About five miles of true subway construction downtown and under UC and the hospitals -- the core of a countywide system.

That's why the countywide tax needs to be 1% permanently, or 1% with a 1/2 cent sunsetting in 30 years.

That allows us to build a big-time core subway system in the city, then extend quickly into the suburbs.

That simple huh? The American people have been getting Nickeled and Dimed to death when it comes to taxes and fees for years and years by our politicians. A perfect example is the Federal Income Tax which was enacted for the first time during the Civil War. In 1913 it was a mere one percent!

History of the US Income Tax (Business Reference Services, Library of Congress)

Now look at what it has become? And this is the case with so many other taxes enacted at the local level in municipalities all over the country. Many are supposed to be set at a flat rate and sunset after a few years but lo and behold, they don't go away.

Enough is enough. People are getting taxed to the point of oblivious. It hurts the economy and makes it difficult for hard working individuals and families to put food on the table. It is one thing to have a modest tax rate to create a safety net of basic services for those that are truly needy. But this concept that we have to tax the American people for every non critical, proposed project such as one like this is absurd.

I don't think there is much question that light rail or even the trolley is going to be an asset in Cincinnati. But the bottom line is that it is going to cost a lot of money and right now money is tough to come by for revenue starved cities such as Cincinnati as well as the people and many businesses that live in the city. Until if and when the economy truly rebounds in the region and tax revenue from existing sources can balance the budget without the need for major cuts or tax increases just to meet the current budget, then it seems prudent to leave things alone or attempt to fund it through private money. Taxing people or businesses that won't even utilize certain services such as this needs to stop and the people that WILL use such a service should be paying for it.

[Briolat21]

Sorry - for those of us who have not studied various modes of transportation... is light rail basically a subway or EL system (basically around one city) or the kind of rail that links multiple cities (i.e. Cincinnati>Columbus>Cleveland)?

[kjbrill]

Well jmecklenborg, nearly all of the metro areas in the US also have significant financial problems. Reminds me of when I was a kid trying to convince my parents everyone is doing it. Never worked. Their response we're not everyone.

I just do not see the county voting to be taxed to create a light rail network. And if by some strange quirk they would vote for it if a train is not built to their doorstep there will be Hell to pay. And for a regional plan a number of other counties need to be involved. I see even less potential for them to agree on a tax to cover a regional system.

Get the streetcar operational first. Then discuss both the uptown loop expansion, which I believe will be difficult enough, and beyond that.

Every tax proposal I have seen to support light rail always includes if we do this we can get federal funds to double the effort. Well the feds are running out of money also.

Are there polls indicating a groundswell of public support for a light rail system? Or is it the same groups held over from MetroMoves with their same old arguments?