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Northeasterners are allergic to roads an think that rail is the panacea to all tranportation ills. I don't think they realize that NY and PA are the only states physically bigger than the major sunbelt metros.
The NE areas have a 100 year head start on population, infrastructure and rail over the Sunbelt. Don't know why they would think that the states and the feds would subsidize effective rail to these areas in a couple of years when it took the NE multiple decades in already established and built out areas to get to where they are now.
Imagine the state of NJ, with half the population and zero rail. Building a transportation system that covers all areas from scratch aint gonna happen over night.
NEerners are too road phobics. ATL must improve their roads in addition to the rail because the road system is already established. There is nothing wrong with improving a system that works. The mantra that we don't need new roads is just stupid. Building roads is not a permanent fix but at least it will help until the rails can catch up.
lol, it will grow on you.
Well I agree both can be beneficial; continuing to expand further out only perpetuates the issues and costs more to build road infrastructure while better planning can capitalize multiple assets and reduce sprawl such as infill and rail. And I personally am by no means a road phobic; I use my car for work nearly every day. But continuing to build more and bigger highways further away from the core only moves the problem or adds to it; not addressing the cause - actually these aspects are where this model hits the wall. Atlanta is far ahead of other sunbelt cities in utilizing multiple forms of transit to enhance smarter growth and scalability.
Some of these sunbelt are still so young; wait until the bill for all this infrastructure comes; adding to it only increases the burden. I am sure I will take heat but the easy part of growth for these areas has mostly already taken place - the more expensive part to maintain and build is yet to come.
And on subsidy of rail; how do you think roads are built - they are just if not more subsidized
And honestly i am by no means anti-car or road but at some point areas have to be accountable for their impacts and sprawl and federal funds to add an 8th beltway is not something I am interested in paying for with my tax dollars. If people want this life style they should pay for the transportation capacity to attain it.
Well I agree both can be beneficial; continuing to expand further out only perpetuates the issues and costs more to build road infrastructure while better planning can capitalize multiple assets and reduce sprawl such as infill and rail. And I personally am by no means a road phobic; I use my car for work nearly every day. But continuing to build more and bigger highways further away from the core only moves the problem or adds to it; not addressing the cause - actually these aspects are where this model hits the wall. Atlanta is far ahead of other sunbelt cities in utilizing multiple forms of transit to enhance smarter growth and scalability.
Some of these sunbelt are still so young; wait until the bill for all this infrastructure comes; adding to it only increases the burden. I am sure I will take heat but the easy part of growth for these areas has mostly already taken place - the more expensive part to maintain and build is yet to come.
And on subsidy of rail; how do you think roads are built - they are just if not more subsidized
And honestly i am by no means anti-car or road but at some point areas have to be accountable for their impacts and sprawl and federal funds to add an 8th beltway is not something I am interested in paying for with my tax dollars. If people want this life style they should pay for the transportation capacity to attain it.
I disagree....the rail system in Atlanta only serves a small portion of Atlanta metro area mainly the city of Atlanta.
I disagree....the rail system in Atlanta only serves a small portion of Atlanta metro area mainly the city of Atlanta.
But the capacity and scaleability is far ahead in use of heavy rail - that is a huge differentiator
Marta carries nearly 5 times the passenger volume in slightly more than half mileage compared a light rail system like DFW - the heavy rail is far more effecient and productive to move more people quicker.
Well I agree both can be beneficial; continuing to expand further out only perpetuates the issues and costs more to build road infrastructure while better planning can capitalize multiple assets and reduce sprawl such as infill and rail. And I personally am by no means a road phobic; I use my car for work nearly every day. But continuing to build more and bigger highways further away from the core only moves the problem or adds to it; not addressing the cause - actually these aspects are where this model hits the wall. Atlanta is far ahead of other sunbelt cities in utilizing multiple forms of transit to enhance smarter growth and scalability.
Some of these sunbelt are still so young; wait until the bill for all this infrastructure comes; adding to it only increases the burden. I am sure I will take heat but the easy part of growth for these areas has mostly already taken place - the more expensive part to maintain and build is yet to come.
And on subsidy of rail; how do you think roads are built - they are just if not more subsidized
And honestly i am by no means anti-car or road but at some point areas have to be accountable for their impacts and sprawl and federal funds to add an 8th beltway is not something I am interested in paying for with my tax dollars. If people want this life style they should pay for the transportation capacity to attain it.
LOl, he said improve the roadways he didn't say anything about building out. He is talking about improving roads in existing areas. you are thinking of new new roads to expand new developments.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdogg817
I disagree....the rail system in Atlanta only serves a small portion of Atlanta metro area mainly the city of Atlanta.
And that is a problem?
Despite the admitted problem of not having good commuter rail options from the city to the suburbs, Atlanta is no different than any other city with a subway. Subways are meant to serve the core city and that's what ours does. With a ridership of over 500,000, we absolute smash every other Sunbelt city in public transit usage. The only city that comes close to matching us in that regard is Los Angeles and they have 3 times as many residents in the metro.
There are also two other things to focus on.
Firstly, while Dallas and Houston are just getting around to building a rail system in their central cities, we are moving on to building out to the outer counties. This is a map of the upcoming projects that will be on the ballot next year:
Secondly, as others have mentioned, just building rail alone won't actually fix anything when it comes to traffic. It must be a multi-pronged approached. A perfect example of that is DC where they have a subway system that is twice as large as Atlantas (and easily the second or third best subway in the country with the ridership to match) yet has the thrid worst traffic congestion in the country even though they essential have an identical msa population to that of Metro Atlanta...which has the 12th worst traffic congestion in the country.
There has to be balance of offering good options for mass transit and road access along with development geared towards utilizing both in the most efficient manner.
I don't think people understand how hard it was for Dallas and Houston (especially) to get rail transit systems. Even Atlanta, which I know has a hard time with the state of Georgia, does not go through the same type of issues that hinder new rail transit like Dallas and Houston.
Dallas voters in 1983 actually wanted heavy rail. Houston voters rejected it. But in 1988, they voted for the monorail system that is currently running in Las Vegas. Dallas voted on a system in the 70s I believe and had the plans drawn up. It was suppose to be the same exact type of system Washington DC,Miami, Atlanta, and BART in San Francisco has. I forgot the reason on why they didn't get it and I'll have to look it up. But articles shall do you fine for now. DALLAS RAIL PLAN IS IN TROUBLE BEFORE IT CAN START - NYTimes.com
It was going to be heavy rail at the time, not the current light rail.
But Houston (which also went through something politically) and Dallas has to now settle for light rail and they should. They along with Atlanta (even though they do have HRT) do not have the density to actually support HRT at it's highest potential as of this moment. Right now, Dallas ridership numbers for it's size are nothing to brag about. DC and SF are different. As they were already dense enough to support a system. Dallas actually had politicians supporting their new rail lines. Houston well, didn't. Maybe when Dallas and Houston increases in density, they could support a HRT system. That is unless the FTA issues funds for a new HRT system which I don't see happening.
And Dallas and Houston (especially) will use commuter rail to funnel suburbanites into the inner city, and have light rail move them around. Highly doubt the feds will approve of heavy rail expansion in these cities anytime soon. The time passed for that (too expensive).
A point that is being missed is that proper planning around transit (TOD) can help infill and be the catalyst to make new transit opps work and help to assist congested roads. The density can come with the transit development
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