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New York has 2 chinatowns...so that should make it a winner
So does SF, but it also has two other neighborhoods that are considered mini-Chinatowns as well. And Oakland has one right across the water from it....so that should make SF a winner by your same logic.
SF's Chinatown is smaller than the three main NYC Chinatowns, and is smaller than the S.G.V. Chinatown outside LA.
Oh, yes it is larger. Unfortunately, most of the pro-New York people who visit SF Chinatown don't bother to veer off Grant Avenue before they call it a day to write their assessments. It's also a well-known fact that Manhattan Chinatown has been shrinking ever since 9/11 and the market crash of 2008. It was even removed from world-renowned "Chinatownology's" list of largest Chinatowns after 2007. The "New" Chinatown they have out there in San Francisco(Richmond District) is also larger than either of the 2 NY satellite Chinatowns. It runs for some 30 blocks on Clement St., as well as many parts of Geary Blvd. and Balboa St. Neither Sunset Park in Brooklyn or Flushing, NY can even touch that. That's because SF New Chinatown is much older and has had more time to grow throughout the years. SF also has 2 smaller Chinatowns in the Sunset District, as well as a noticeably growing compact one in the Visitacion Area of the city's SE sector.
So does SF, but it also has two other neighborhoods that are considered mini-Chinatowns as well. And Oakland has one right across the water from it....so that should make SF a winner by your same logic.
The Bay Area is gonna win ANY debate when it comes to Asian ethnic enclaves whether it be Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Little Saigon(maybe Garden Grove, LA, or Houston can take this one), Little India, OR Little Korea, or Little Tehran(LA will probably win this do to Tehranangelas) etc, etc. It'll even win against a city like NYC every-time, because SF(and Cali in general) have deeper rooted, and more historical ties to Asia than NYC does, do to the fact that California is right across the pond from Asia.
SF's Chinatown is smaller than the three main NYC Chinatowns, and is smaller than the S.G.V. Chinatown outside LA.
I have to agree with Drosales on this one. I don't know exactly how one determines the boundaries or influence of a neighborhood. All I can say is that based on what I've seen up front, I believe that NYC Chinatown is no longer bigger than San Fran's. It is, however, still ahead of Flushing for the time being. Ask me this question 10 or 15 years ago, and I would've said "New York" without hesitation. Many Chinese residents and businesses have since relocated to one of many Chinese communities throughout the Greater NY area. This is evident in the alarming number of "For Lease" signs posted on the front of buildings throughout the area, especially east of the Bowery. Chinatown is currently going through a gentrification phase with non-Chinese residents and businesses moving in. During the same time, San Fran's Chinatown has painstakingly made a slow, albeit steady push into North Beach, Nob Hill and the Financial District. Whatever the future may have in store for Manhattan's Chinatown, it probably won't be growth.
You need to visit Manhattan Chinatown dozens of times too.. And not just during the wintertime. :P
I understand that the google street view pics may not be representative, but knowing what I know about the relative population densities between the two places, I find it really doubtful that SF Chinatown has more foot traffic than Manhattan's Chinatown (or even Flushing's now).
The pics you just showed of SF Chinatown, although busy, look somewhat sparse by Canal Street standards.
As I mentioned in another thread, narrow streets are often misleading as they often make places feel more crowded/dense than they actually are. You want more accuracy, COUNT the people. lol (And Manhattan Chinatown sidewalks are narrow, although SF's may be more so). Look at how packed these sidewalks are and these are on WIDER streets...
I had good pics of Manhattan Chinatown on my last visit during the summertime.. If I find them I'll be glad to post them
Like what the previous poster said, it depends on when he pictures are taken. Grant Ave. is narowwer than most other streets in Chinatown. I've been to Canal Street, and it doesn't even measure up to Stockton St. on any given busy day. There are even proposals to widen Stockton's sidewalks because the foot traffic is quite murderous- the picture of Stockton St. posted by the previous member seems to have been taken before noon when foot traffic was somewhat sparse.
The Bay Area is gonna win ANY debate when it comes to Asian ethnic enclaves whether it be Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Little Saigon(maybe Garden Grove, LA, or Houston can take this one), Little India, OR Little Korea, or Little Tehran(LA will probably win this do to Tehranangelas) etc, etc. It'll even win against a city like NYC every-time, because SF(and Cali in general) have deeper rooted, and more historical ties to Asia than NYC does, do to the fact that California is right across the pond from Asia.
No, the Little Tokyo in L.A. is far larger. But I'll agree on some of the rest of that. I have no interest in pursuing the data, but it would be interesting to see a comparison of these enclaves in each city as a proportion of the city's size. I am certain that SF would indeed win on all categories of Asian enclave under that rule.
No, the Little Tokyo in L.A. is far larger. But I'll agree on some of the rest of that. I have no interest in pursuing the data, but it would be interesting to see a comparison of these enclaves in each city as a proportion of the city's size. I am certain that SF would indeed win on all categories of Asian enclave under that rule.
Little Tokyo in L.A. isn't the main Japanese enclave either. That would probably be Torrance, just as Little India is in Artesia and the Vietnamese population centers would be found more in San Jose than SF.
For me, SF's Chinatown is the nicest, although I'd have to say all these old urban enclaves are ghetto remnants. So the aesthetic charms--and there are many--are still compromised by the historic realities. In that sense I prefer the San Gabriel Valley Chinese community, which, like communities springing up everywhere across the nation, is more integrated with the city at large through the many businesses and storefronts. Not as "pretty" or charming or historical, but also less freighted with the past too. And SGV Chinese food is superior. (Opinion, but pretty close to fact.)
San Francisco looks more like the real thing, but in a way Manhattan *feels* more like it, although Im kind of splitting hairs. Streets are more narrow in SF Chinatown and its on a hill, more back alleys, and kind of feels seedier in a way (away from the main tourist street, Grant Street). The meat and produce is great in both, although I think Manhattan's has a leg-up in that department. As for restaurants, though, SF chinatown may have a slight edge.
Two of my favorite neighborhoods in the country, no doubt.
I have lived in both places and am familiar w/both Chinatowns. I would have to say that SF Chinatown is definitely denser. New York might feel "more like it" because it is on flat ground, so you get a clear panoramic view in all directions + looking farther and being deceived into thinking c-town is larger than it really is. San Francisco's Chinatown on the other hand is on a step hill in the E-W direction, w/ inclines and declines S-N. As a result, you feel "hemmed-in" like a mountain goat on the side of a mountain with a good view in only one direction- downhill(east). Place aside these distractions and you'll realize the difference right away. In terms of seediness, SF Chinatown's alleys are NOTORIUOSLY quite safe. As a matter of fact, Hang Ah Tea Room, the oldest restaurant (est. 1920) in Chinatown, is also located in one of these historical alleys. It has the distinction of currently holding the highest health dept. score of any restaurant in Chinatown. Meat and produce in both cities are about the same, but Manhattan's overwhelming problems with rats in the Lower East gives a slight edge to San Francisco. SF Chinatown is really a meat and produce heaven. Move away from gift-shop oriented Grant Ave. and head up one of the many side streets like Jackson, Pacific, and especially Stockton where you'll find all you'll ever need for your grocery, dining, and medicinal needs.
Last edited by drosales; 05-21-2010 at 03:41 PM..
Reason: incomplete
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