North American cities with the best/most vibrant Chinatowns? (live, largest, places)

[drosales]

Originally Posted by Lancer78

According to demographia, Manhattan Chinatown's density, including the rest of the LES, is ~93,000 people/sq. mile
New York Community District Population & Density from 1970


EDIT: However. let's separate just Chinatown by itself....
According to wikipedia, Manhattan Chinatown by itself has a pop of 90-100K in an area of 0.36 sq. miles..
Chinatown, Manhattan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So if that's accurate, there are an incredible ~250,000 people/sq. mile in Manhattan's Chinatown!!!
Now, that's what I call packin' em like sardines!

Who knows what the densities really are with all the illegals for both Chinatowns!

The Wikipedia description of SF Chinatown area is way off. The 100,000-150,000 population is in a much smaller area(probably about the same as Manhattan) making it just as dense if not denser than Manhattan's. As for head count, I have also noticed that in SF Chinatown there are lots more people spread about on non-main streets & alleys than in Manhattan.

[doloresheights]

Originally Posted by drosales

The Wikipedia description of SF Chinatown area is way off. The 100,000-150,000 population is in a much smaller area(probably about the same as Manhattan) making it just as dense if not denser than Manhattan's. As for head count, I have also noticed that in SF Chinatown there are lots more people spread about on non-main streets & alleys than in Manhattan.

Drosales- There's really no use in trying to talk sense into these New York sympathizers. They've already made up their minds and are in denial when they know that their city has been bested by a smaller competitor such as San Francisco. Post a picture of 1,000 people attending a film screening at St. Mary's Square in SF Chinatown, and they'll respond by photo-shopping 10 million people at Big Bird's birthday party in Columbus Park, 3am Christmas morning. It's laughable that some of these people can even suggest comparing San Francisco's Chinatown to a strip mall in LA. Sure, some of its main streets are not as wide as Canal Street, but they forget to mention the fact that the average width of SF Chinatown's streets are wider than NY's. Take for instance NY's Mott and Pell. Barely enough room for small vehicles to pass. Any narrower & they could apply for alleyway status. At least every street in San Francisco Chinatown is wide enough for parking on both sides and cars to pass with breathable space. The average width of every SF Chinatown sidewalk is also wider than NY's, as well as higher foot traffic and population density. Here's a city by city comparison of Chinese population and density.

City(pop.) Area Pop. % of pop. density p/ sq. mi.
San Francisco(860,000) 44 sq. mi,. 300,000 35% 6,818
New York(8,000,000) 300 Sq. mi. 450,000 5% 1,500

They can argue all they want, but there's realy no contest. NY beats SF in every other category, but NOT Chinatown.

[DeusEx]

Originally Posted by doloresheights

They can argue all they want, but there's realy no contest. NY beats SF in every other category, but NOT Chinatown.

Can think of quite a few other ways, and not just Chinatown. But yes, overall, NY has a leg up on SF (then again, show me an american city that doesn't.)

[Beechlite]

Originally Posted by doloresheights

Drosales- There's really no use in trying to talk sense into these New York sympathizers. They've already made up their minds and are in denial when they know that their city has been bested by a smaller competitor such as San Francisco. Post a picture of 1,000 people attending a film screening at St. Mary's Square in SF Chinatown, and they'll respond by photo-shopping 10 million people at Big Bird's birthday party in Columbus Park, 3am Christmas morning. It's laughable that some of these people can even suggest comparing San Francisco's Chinatown to a strip mall in LA. Sure, some of its main streets are not as wide as Canal Street, but they forget to mention the fact that the average width of SF Chinatown's streets are wider than NY's. Take for instance NY's Mott and Pell. Barely enough room for small vehicles to pass. Any narrower & they could apply for alleyway status. At least every street in San Francisco Chinatown is wide enough for parking on both sides and cars to pass with breathable space. The average width of every SF Chinatown sidewalk is also wider than NY's, as well as higher foot traffic and population density. Here's a city by city comparison of Chinese population and density.

City(pop.) Area Pop. % of pop. density p/ sq. mi.
San Francisco(860,000) 44 sq. mi,. 300,000 35% 6,818
New York(8,000,000) 300 Sq. mi. 450,000 5% 1,500

They can argue all they want, but there's realy no contest. NY beats SF in every other category, but NOT Chinatown.

I think Lancer78 might also be comparing the two Chinatowns unfairly. NY C-town's few widest streets may be wider than SF's, but the majority of their traffic allowable streets(non-alleys) are quite narrow. Many are often empty and gives you a feeling of uneasiness while walking like you're about to be mugged or something. Most of SF C-town's streets are wider with more people on them, and feels safer.

[DANNYY]

Originally Posted by polo89

The Bay Area is gonna win ANY debate when it comes to Asian ethnic enclaves whether it be Chinatown, Little Tokyo, Little Saigon(maybe Garden Grove, LA, or Houston can take this one), Little India, OR Little Korea, or Little Tehran(LA will probably win this do to Tehranangelas) etc, etc. It'll even win against a city like NYC every-time, because SF(and Cali in general) have deeper rooted, and more historical ties to Asia than NYC does, do to the fact that California is right across the pond from Asia.

Originally Posted by HenryAlan

No, the Little Tokyo in L.A. is far larger. But I'll agree on some of the rest of that. I have no interest in pursuing the data, but it would be interesting to see a comparison of these enclaves in each city as a proportion of the city's size. I am certain that SF would indeed win on all categories of Asian enclave under that rule.

I agree with most of his post as well, but I disagree with the Little India part, Jersey City-NYC, and Chicago take the cake for that. Devon Avenue is only rivaled by NYC's Indian sectors. Otherwise Polo hit the nail on the head with the rest of his description besides maybe the correction you made.

[jjohns252525]

I'd say San Fran. Manhattan's is larger, but as other posters have said San Fran's is more authentic. No other large North American cities (i've been to pretty much all of them) can compete with NYC and San Fran in this area.

[Craziaskowboi]

Am I the only one who likes Philadelphia's "friendship arch" the best?

[drosales]

Originally Posted by Beechlite

I think Lancer78 might also be comparing the two Chinatowns unfairly. NY C-town's few widest streets may be wider than SF's, but the majority of their traffic allowable streets(non-alleys) are quite narrow. Many are often empty and gives you a feeling of uneasiness while walking like you're about to be mugged or something. Most of SF C-town's streets are wider with more people on them, and feels safer.

Not only that, but most of these dinky alley-streets in Manhattan's Chinatown intersect, making it a challenge to turn and find parking spaces.

[rah]

Let's talk about the safety aspect real quick...SF's chinatown is NOT "dangerous", but it does have an edge. There are some housing projects, and people get shot/seriously beaten/stabbed in Chinatown at least a few times a year (i pay close attention to crime news and police blotters for SF). Murders have been kind of rare in recent years, except for a business owner and suspected triad leader who got executed by a masked gunman in his chinatown shop in...2006 i think it was. Back in the 70's Chinatown was pretty crazy though, and people were getting murdered regularly. We're talking gang wars, drugs, innocent people getting gunned down, police corruption, FBI investigations into the SFPD, etc. Anyways...does any of this sound like most other chinatowns, past and present?

I'm honestly wondering here, because in SF, Chinatown never really had the reputation as a "safe" place to my knowledge (nor a "dangerous" one...except for maybe back in the 70's, and possibly back in the 1800's). One of my best friends is chinese and grew up in chinatown in the 90's and early 2000's, and his parents wouldn't let him out at night for the very reason that they felt it was unsafe after dark (to be fair, they also lived there in the bad days of the 70s). He's in his 20's now and his parents are still hesitant when we're visiting their place and then go out at night. Anyways, my personal experience is that it can be edgy after dark, for sure, though i've had no experiences for me to personally think it's unsafe. I guess what i'm saying is the atmosphere of the place at times is shady, especially when you know the violent history (and know of the occasional present day violence that still happens). The only time it feels overtly nice/safe, like a crowded chinese version of Mayberry, is when i'm there in the middle of the day on Grant Ave with all the tourists. The rest of it feels like a normal working to middle class SF hood, though very busy, somewhat gritty and dirty, and like i said, occasionlly kind of shady (usually at night, when the place becomes devoid of most people). I think some visitors just walk down Grant Ave. and let the tourist aspect take over their view of the place on all fronts (not just in regards to crime of course, which you obviously don't "see" 99% of the time anyways in most places). I just have this sneaking suspicion that "SF Chinatown = very safe" is just a part of that old "San Francisco = very safe" stereotype, especially when experience from SF natives seems to point to it not being "very safe." I'm open to having my suspicions proved wrong though...

That said, i definitely love chinatown and i don't want anyone to get the wrong idea, as I'm not saying it's a scary crime-infested ghetto (it's most definitely not)...but "very safe" just doesn't fit IMO.

And on the topic of alleys, as someone mentioned SF's chinatown allies as being very clean.... I agree, for SOME of the alleys, as the city of SF actually made it a point to clean a few of them up (the ones off of Grant Ave, of course, that all the tourists see) and turned them into tourist attractions themselves. Jack kerouac alley for example used to be notoriously p1ss and garbage filled, but for the past couple years has been nicely maintained, and had little historical plaques installed in the ground.

[Toure]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Am I the only one who likes Philadelphia's "friendship arch" the best?

Ikr. It's the most authentic thing out of all of them.