Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
IMO, a general liberal arts degree is a waste of money:
1. Many classes are just in lecture halls and when smaller groups do meet, they are taught by some TA.
2. The overwhelming number of left-leaning profs who don't even debate issues anymore, but have a habit of presenting only their side of the issue.
3. Anyone who is motivated can get a good liberal arts education through reading various books on philosophy and literature. The library also has many books on theory, literary criticism, etc.
4. Learning to learn is a great concept and should be done by everyone no matter their age. Knowledge is power, but acquiring knowledge can be done in various ways.
At the university I went to, I was convinced the "College of Arts and Sciences" only existed so majors in other colleges could take their core electives. Every department had a ton of entry to mid level class' taught by adjuncts. They offered the degrees for those who were interested but it was obvious that liberal arts were not the focus of the University.
What was shockingly hilarious about that the liberal arts majors would whine and complain every chance they got about it. Perhaps one should have not gone to a career/internship driven school where a 5 year program was the norm, expecting to be around students that wanted to "find themselves" and "find the beauty in education" or whatever fluffy BS has been discussed in this thread. I loved seeing them try to organize protests and campus activities that no one showed up to and the only lasting memories of them were the fliers on the ground being walked on.
Instead they were surrounded by a cynical bunch of of STEM majors that wanted to be working ASAP and (gasp) be making money.
At least 80% of students in my grad program did not have a company paying for it. That being said, I don't think grad school in general is worth it if it isn't one of the top 30 or so programs in the field.
The majors I posted were undergrad majors. I started at $54k/year in 2008 right out of undergrad, and I was just a hair above average for the school of computer science at my university.
It is illegal to take out more than $57,500 in federal loans for undergrad. An undergrad student would have to take out private loans in order to reach the $80k debt mark. If we are talking over $40k tuition, that is a pretty short list of schools, all but one of which are private non-profits; and I think it is highly likely that all of them except Sanford-Brown offer need based grant-in-aid before private loans.
Schools cannot set their own federal loan limits higher than the national limit.
I don't think your school had a $44k/year federal loan limit. Undergrads are currently limited to $12.5k per year. Even med students, the highest limit, are limited to $40.5k per year. FinAid | Loans | Student Loans
What that means, is if your school has full need aid (most schools do now), then any need past the federal limit must be met by grant in aid. I know there must be some private non-profits out there that use private loans to meet need, but that situation is rare. It is the private for-profits that will use private loans to meet need, and that is how you end up with debt in excess of the federal limits.
If you went to harvard for undergrad, for example, you would end up with more than 40k in debt!
Med students end up with around 300k in debt for medical school. I have a friend who just finished medical school, and he has $280k in debt from the program. With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong.
Harvard has full need based grant in aid. If you go to Harvard, it is highly unlikely you would come out with $40k in debt, much less $40k in a single year. The few people I knew who went there (I came from a west coast high school, so we rarely sent people to Ivys), not only came out with zero debt, but actually came out of school with savings.
As you can from the link I posted, med students can take out well over $200k in federal loans. As well, professional schools do not have full need based aid programs; they will require you to take out private loans in order to meet your need. Professional school is a completely different beast when it comes to financial aid and debt.
I run into many people that think you should go into massive debt for graduate (not professional) school and that undergraduate school at private institutions requires maxing out loans. This is a total misconception, and anyone who is approaching anything but professional school intent on racking up six figure debt loads has failed somewhere in their approach.
Harvard has full need based grant in aid. If you go to Harvard, it is highly unlikely you would come out with $40k in debt, much less $40k in a single year. The few people I knew who went there (I came from a west coast high school, so we rarely sent people to Ivys), not only came out with zero debt, but actually came out of school with savings.
As you can from the link I posted, med students can take out well over $200k in federal loans. As well, professional schools do not have full need based aid programs; they will require you to take out private loans in order to meet your need. Professional school is a completely different beast when it comes to financial aid and debt.
I run into many people that think you should go into massive debt for graduate (not professional) school and that undergraduate school at private institutions requires maxing out loans. This is a total misconception, and anyone who is approaching anything but professional school intent on racking up six figure debt loads has failed somewhere in their approach.
I am sorry, but you are still incorrect. There are a lot of people who do not go to for-profit schools who end up with 80k+ in debt from undergrad.
Harvard has full need based grant in aid. If you go to Harvard, it is highly unlikely you would come out with $40k in debt, much less $40k in a single year. The few people I knew who went there (I came from a west coast high school, so we rarely sent people to Ivys), not only came out with zero debt, but actually came out of school with savings.
As you can from the link I posted, med students can take out well over $200k in federal loans. As well, professional schools do not have full need based aid programs; they will require you to take out private loans in order to meet your need. Professional school is a completely different beast when it comes to financial aid and debt.
I run into many people that think you should go into massive debt for graduate (not professional) school and that undergraduate school at private institutions requires maxing out loans. This is a total misconception, and anyone who is approaching anything but professional school intent on racking up six figure debt loads has failed somewhere in their approach.
Whats the household income limit for Harvard and other Ivy's? Last time I heard it was under 70k = free ride.
The big issue facing society is not racking up debt going to Ivy's or top ranked universities. Its the students that that rack up 80k+ in debt majoring a non STEM major at "we used to be a junior, but now we will gladly hand out 4 year degrees for 30k per person" college. I know some people that would chose the small private college over a substantially better and much cheaper State Univeristy because of the coddling and small class sizes that is marketed to them.
Also agree about not having to pay for grad school for a non-professional major. In Engineering, if you want to put in the full 2 years, including being a TA, research assistant, and writing a Thesis, you are looking at getting your tuition paid for, as well as a 20k/year stipend. You will pay your own way if you want to do it in a year, or take night class' while working.
If you went to harvard for undergrad, for example, you would end up with more than 40k in debt!
Med students end up with around 300k in debt for medical school. I have a friend who just finished medical school, and he has $280k in debt from the program. With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong.
You are way off. The average debt from Harvard undergrad is 10k.
Your friend paid way to much based on average debt for Med school which is 160k as of 2009.
Last edited by Gatornation; 03-14-2012 at 07:04 AM..
Whats the household income limit for Harvard and other Ivy's? Last time I heard it was under 70k = free ride.
The big issue facing society is not racking up debt going to Ivy's or top ranked universities. Its the students that that rack up 80k+ in debt majoring a non STEM major at "we used to be a junior, but now we will gladly hand out 4 year degrees for 30k per person" college. I know some people that would chose the small private college over a substantially better and much cheaper State Univeristy because of the coddling and small class sizes that is marketed to them.
Also agree about not having to pay for grad school for a non-professional major. In Engineering, if you want to put in the full 2 years, including being a TA, research assistant, and writing a Thesis, you are looking at getting your tuition paid for, as well as a 20k/year stipend. You will pay your own way if you want to do it in a year, or take night class' while working.
Right. Top schools are not the problem. It is the average student paying a lot for an average school.
I am sorry, but you are still incorrect. There are a lot of people who do not go to for-profit schools who end up with 80k+ in debt from undergrad.
I am not sure how to be more clear about that.
Not people going to good schools. You can't go by tuition. You need to look at average debt at graduation which is around 15k on average for a top 50 school.
You are way off. The average debt from Harvard undergrad is 10k.
I never said every student had that much in loans, I said it is 100% possible. The average student loan debt for undergrad, not a for-profit school is $24k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation
Not people going to good schools. You can't go by tuition. You need to look at average debt at graduation which is around 15k on average for a top 50 school.
Again, I never said the average debt was 80k! I said it was possible to have that much debt! Please actually read what I said before posting.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
