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Could you please explain this? I don't know what KCTCS is, and I don't know what you mean by Mat 110 or 150.
KCTCS = Kentucky Community Technical College System (AKA, the Kentucky Community Colleges)
MAT 110 = MAT 110 - Applied Mathematics Includes the concepts of ratio and proportion, units and conversions, linear equations in two variables, inequalities, graphing and writing equation of a line, percents, interest, descriptive statistics, and logical symbolism. Emphasizes applications in the various technologies.
KCTCS = Kentucky Community Technical College System (AKA, the Kentucky Community Colleges)
MAT 110 = MAT 110 - Applied Mathematics Includes the concepts of ratio and proportion, units and conversions, linear equations in two variables, inequalities, graphing and writing equation of a line, percents, interest, descriptive statistics, and logical symbolism. Emphasizes applications in the various technologies.
MAT 150 = College Algebra
I think the person you responded to was talking about a four year degree. Not sure why you are surprised about level of math in CC. Kids going to four year schools are doing Calculus in HS.
I think the person you responded to was talking about a four year degree. Not sure why you are surprised about level of math in CC. Kids going to four year schools are doing Calculus in HS.
Correct! Also, here's some info about the Chinese education system and the international tests:
Tell that to the majority of KCTCS Nursing graduates then! Their basic math course that is a req is Mat 110! I was shocked that they don't even have to have 150 to graduate (honestly, though I don't think a good majority of them could graduate if it was a req!
Gatornation was correct. I was referencing the bachelors level graduates not vo tech students. People training for certificates or careers at a vo tech are learning a specific skill to be proficient in a specific job. Those jobs often require proficiency exams and/or apprentice like training with specific hours logged before being able to work independently.
The US still leads the world in scientific output if you measure our patents and peer reviewed publication numbers. Those are really the currency by which science should be measured. The only growing economy who is getting a great return on their investment in STEM training recently is Korea. China is trending but doing so at a rate that is really (and I mean really) unimpressive for the capital they've spent.
The other thing to consider is that testing isn't always the best way to measure scientific, or mathematics, potential. I've meet students from places like Singapore who were like human integral tables, but they never develop a creative mastery of the subject and end up in roles as technicians. Like Katiana mentioned also there is a lot of mis-representation in the data from certain countries.
Teaching college is on his radar and what he does is unusual.
...and thought of teaching at the college level.
I've seen a few people here talking about teaching on the college level with a terminal masters and while you might blow me off since you think I'm against your "useless degrees" I have to say that you guys should really look into this a little deeper.
It's also where I think this thread comes full circle. People are considering the "return on investment" for college now because to get a good education you are likely to pick up a fair amount of debt. This is especially true if you pick up a self funded terminal degree. What you do afterwards becomes even more important when you are about to default on an enormous debt in your mid twenties.
If you are lucky enough to get a job teaching at a community college or teaching intensive school what do you think you'll earn? How much of your monthly check is going to be spent on interest alone? Most states (maybe all?) are pretty transparent when it comes to professor salaries at public institutions. Also the AAUP reports salary data as well as the Chronicles of Higher Ed (CHE). At the CC level tenure track assistant professor positions do not make much at all (The Worst Salary Year | Inside Higher Ed).
The biggest reality check of the "maybe I'll just teach college crowd" is how crowded that market is. I'd urge anyone interested to lurk the career forums at the CHE. The market for humanists has been terrible for several years and the average job seeker sends in over 100 applications for a tenure track job. The adjuncts, instructors, visiting profs are also submitting as many in some fields. There are hundreds (in some cases thousands) of people applying for every job opening. You can look back and see what someone who was hired as a tenure track assistant prof at the CCs, public teaching schools, or large state flagships and for most fields the ROI is not worth it. The competition is mostly against PhD graduates of the greatest schools in the world (not country) with multiple publications, or book contracts, who have extensive teaching portfolios.
I wouldn't wish an academic job search for a general degree on my worst enemy at this period of history. No offense, but those of you who "thought about maybe teaching college" really need to rethink that advice. While being cocky is a personality trait that is unfortunately common among academics it won't be enough to get you a job.
I think the person you responded to was talking about a four year degree. Not sure why you are surprised about level of math in CC. Kids going to four year schools are doing Calculus in HS.
The US still leads the world in scientific output if you measure our patents and peer reviewed publication numbers. Those are really the currency by which science should be measured. The only growing economy who is getting a great return on their investment in STEM training recently is Korea. China is trending but doing so at a rate that is really (and I mean really) unimpressive for the capital they've spent.
The other thing to consider is that testing isn't always the best way to measure scientific, or mathematics, potential. I've meet students from places like Singapore who were like human integral tables, but they never develop a creative mastery of the subject and end up in roles as technicians. Like Katiana mentioned also there is a lot of mis-representation in the data from certain countries.
Well, the U.S. Science Chief (John Holdren), Royal Society, and a few others are in agreement that China is in position to outperform the U.S. in scientific output within the near future.
I've seen a few people here talking about teaching on the college level with a terminal masters and while you might blow me off since you think I'm against your "useless degrees" I have to say that you guys should really look into this a little deeper.
It's also where I think this thread comes full circle. People are considering the "return on investment" for college now because to get a good education you are likely to pick up a fair amount of debt. This is especially true if you pick up a self funded terminal degree. What you do afterwards becomes even more important when you are about to default on an enormous debt in your mid twenties.
If you are lucky enough to get a job teaching at a community college or teaching intensive school what do you think you'll earn? How much of your monthly check is going to be spent on interest alone? Most states (maybe all?) are pretty transparent when it comes to professor salaries at public institutions. Also the AAUP reports salary data as well as the Chronicles of Higher Ed (CHE). At the CC level tenure track assistant professor positions do not make much at all (The Worst Salary Year | Inside Higher Ed).
The biggest reality check of the "maybe I'll just teach college crowd" is how crowded that market is. I'd urge anyone interested to lurk the career forums at the CHE. The market for humanists has been terrible for several years and the average job seeker sends in over 100 applications for a tenure track job. The adjuncts, instructors, visiting profs are also submitting as many in some fields. There are hundreds (in some cases thousands) of people applying for every job opening. You can look back and see what someone who was hired as a tenure track assistant prof at the CCs, public teaching schools, or large state flagships and for most fields the ROI is not worth it. The competition is mostly against PhD graduates of the greatest schools in the world (not country) with multiple publications, or book contracts, who have extensive teaching portfolios.
I wouldn't wish an academic job search for a general degree on my worst enemy at this period of history. No offense, but those of you who "thought about maybe teaching college" really need to rethink that advice. While being cocky is a personality trait that is unfortunately common among academics it won't be enough to get you a job.
While I agree that it is very important for one to carefully think about a career in teaching college, you do seem to be going by the worst case scenario. It is a challenging goal no doubt, but it is a realistic one, if one is really willing to put their mind to it.
I for one will admit, I am lucky to have gotten through my Masters with zero doubt. I do realize that not everyone is that lucky. I went to one of the more affordable, inexpensive state universities in the midwest for undergrad. While we grew up not necessarily expecting it, and I grew up comfortable although not rich, my parents did set asid enough money to fund my brothers and my education costs provided we both went to an affordable state school, and maintained a B average. Both of us got some small scholarships and we were expected to cover all our miscellaneous non-academic expenses (gas, phone, etc.). For Grad school I was on my own. I did get a Teaching Assistansthip which gave me teaching experience, a stipend, and covered the majority of my tuition and fees. I used my savings I earned while working and living at home for a year and a half to cover the rest.
1. First off, while it is unfortunate that faculty hvae not gotten raises, $45,000-$55,000 is not exactly poverty.
2. Luck does play a partin getting a teaching job, but if you are willing to pay your dues adjuncting for a few years. (adjuncts get paid very little, but if you are able to manage teaching sixteen courses a year like I did for a few years, you build up valuable experience, that can make you more marketable than someone with their PhD who never taught a community college. If you go the extra mile, and have department chairs and deans that write glowing recommendations then that goes a long way.
3. It is a numbers game. But even when talking to those in the humanities/english/history, etc. I've NEVER heard of search committees receiving thousands of applications. Over a hundred? definitely. I am in a "soft" STEM field. So it is different. In my field 40-50 total applicants is more typical.
4. Many community colleges do prefer PhDs, but just as many community colleges actually have mixed feelings about PhDs. If there is even a whiff of a PhD "settling" for a community college job until they get something better, then they may very well get passed over. Again, it depends on the institution. A PhD will always be looked upon as impressive. But since community colleges put ZERO weight on publications, and everything on teaching experience and passion. Out of the three department chairs I've had as an adjunct, only one had a PhD. And he eventually quit.
The other two actually had two Masters (which may be an even better route). One full time job, that I was a finalist for (and honestly looking back, I thought my cover letter, interview, and teaching demonstration were only OK) it was a tie between me and one other guy, who had no more education than I did. The reason I didn't get as I learned in confidence later, had more to do with me not understanding what not to say from a college political standpoint, versus my qualifications. So now I know, as I apply for four full time positions for this fall.
Again it may be a little different in the humanities. But NO ONE I know who got hired at a community college in my field came from the greatest schools, etc. And like I said publications don't mean squat at a community college. An understanding of the mission of a community college, experience working with every type of student, an awareness of pedagogies, etc., etc.
A search for a community college job is competitive and challenging. But its not like moving to Hollywood with dreams of stardom. You do need a plan though, and you have to read in between the lines a little to figure out what they are looking for.
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Their basic math course that is a req is Mat 110!
I was shocked that they don't even have to have 150 to graduate (honestly, though I don't think a good majority of them could graduate if it was a req!
