Magnesium Chloride & Your Environment (Denver, Gunnison: 2014, law, train)

[julian17033]

When I moved to Eastern PA from Denver in 2009 the first thing that I noticed was the enormous amount of rust on everything metal including some vehicles that were not even five years old yet.
The rust starts to appear along the window seams and advances from there.
The closer you get to the Atlantic Ocean the more this is exasperated.

Originally Posted by McGowdog

I've been back east and it seems to me that almost everything rusts or is rusting... fence posts, signs, etc.

I've seen rust pouring down onto the paint of fairly new cars... like from below the rear view mirrors.

Colorado and much of the high mountain deserts of the West are very dry and we do not have near the problems of rust that humid climates and places that use heavy salt have.

Add: now, although we don't have rust, we do have drastic effects from the sun which destroys paint jobs... once the clear coat wears off... and which also destroys car interiors. The sun is brutal up here.

[ryanek9freak]

Exactly. I grew up as a child in the snow (read: RUST) belt of Northeast Ohio. they use road salt as though it were some sort of a religion, and having been a mechanic there, it makes your job a nightmare. Nearly everything has to be heated with an acetylene torch to free it, cars need complete replacing of brake and fuel lines every 3 years, and people driving around in 4 or 5 year old cars have rust on the wheel wells. Unacceptable to me. I have no problem using sand in Colorado, it works well, and if the only bad side effect is a broken windshield, so be it.

Road salt is a joke. It accomplishes nothing but destroying roads and cars, and pollutes the environment with runoff when the snow melts. That, and MAG chloride, which is even worse. I hate the environment back east. stuff rusts just sitting there. Conversely, I've seen cars here sit under a tree for 30 years and still not have anymore than minor surface rust on them.

[jazzlover]

I agree 100% with ryanek9freak about this. In my opinion, the use of road salt and mag chloride should be banned in Colorado. It is used as a poor excuse for the failure to properly train drivers to drive in winter road conditions. I always find it amusing that people managed to drive as safely in winter 40 or 50 years ago--without ABS braking, tons of 4WD's, mag chloride, vehicle stability control, etc., etc.--as they do today. How did they (we) do it back then? We learned how to drive in bad winter road conditions and learned how to recognize dangerous road conditions before they caused a loss of vehicle control. Road salting is another case of "nanny" government spending tons of money to try to cure a case of irresponsibility of parents and driving educators who fail to teach young drivers how to operate a vehicle safely in adverse weather and road conditions. Proper training does work--in my case, I was trained by my father, a superior winter driver. Result? In over 40 years of driving winter roads in the Rocky Mountains, I've had exactly one minor accident caused by slick roads. In that incident, another driver lost control of his vehicle and slid into me.

[CosmicWizard]

ryanek9freak wrote:

I've seen cars here sit under a tree for 30 years and still not have anymore than minor surface rust on them

Watching a car rust under a tree for 30 years seems pretty boring! Your patience is admirable.

[ryanek9freak]

I've been known to watch paint dry.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by ryanek9freak

I've been known to watch paint dry.

Just don't inhale.....

[Idunn]

Drought effects, dehydration, winter burn, and some herbicide damage also appear as tip or marginal burning on trees. Water stress and dehydration may exacerbate chloride toxicity and cause even more extensive damage. There is no known method to fully separate the symptoms of chloride toxicity with water stress. [1]


'Tis the season—and they are out poisoning your environment with magnesium chloride.

For the uninformed, magnesium chloride is a salt, and the current favored winter road treatment towards dry roads in Colorado and other states.

As a salt, it can be toxic in higher concentrations. Even if applied in low doses, it accumulates in soil, with negative effects on trees and other vegetation, with growing culmative negative consequences. Negative effects are exacerbated during drought conditions or when vegetation otherwise under stress. This is evident along roads in Colorado, where mature trees, even the young, are dead or dying. Mag chloride also finds its way into water courses, as washed there from the many roads in Colorado paralleling rivers; it is harmful as well to aquatic life. It also corrodes vital vehicle components.

From a purely environmental standpoint, magnesium chloride should never be used on roads. Yet CDOT applies literally millions of gallons of this stuff into the Colorado environment each year. In the Loveland area alone, CDOT used 136,846 gallons of liquid de-icer and 3,268 tons of solid de-icer (as mixed with sand), in 2011[2]. In the same year, CDOT used 1.6 million gallons of liquid de-icer and 18,000 tons of solid de-icer in the Denver metro area[3].

There is no need to do such things, and in years past Colorado did not. But CDOT answers to the common will, and that is the roads should be as dry as possible in winter—towards convenience and the questionable greater safety of those that will drive recklessly in any condition—the environment be damned.

1) 'Magnesium Chloride Toxicity in Trees,' Colorado State University
Magnesium Chloride Toxicity in Trees

2) 'CDOT Maintenance Crews in Larimer County Prepared for the Winter Ahead,' CDOT
CDOT Maintenance Crews in Larimer County Prepared for the Winter Ahead — CDOT

3) 'CDOT says it is ready for winter driving season,' The Denver Post
CDOT says it is ready for winter driving season - The Denver Post

[jazzlover]

Not to mention that mag chloride is by no means cheap. I hate the stuff and wish it was never used on the highways.

[snofarmer]

Idunn, did you read the thread or just jump to the end and post?

It is a salt in the sence that a hydrate is a salt, not to be confused with sea salt or sodium chloride/rock salt halite.

And don't forget they use it all summer long to control dust on dirt roads.

The MgCl2 breaks up the bonds of ice to deter its formation. It also binds to the natural elements on the road to keep ice melted for the maximum amount of time, and give the best traction for vehicles.
MgCl2 mixture can be sprayed down on the road surface before a storm, or immediately after plowing to stop the bonding of ice and stops snowpack.

The lowest temperature at which MgCl2 can melt snow or ice (eutectic temperature) is about -28 degrees Fahrenheit at a concentration of 21.6 percent. Its ice melting capacity is about 40 percent greater than Calcium Chloride CaCl2.
This is one of the reasons that I like to use it it works when sodium does not.


It can contain a corrosion inhibitor making it less damaging to concrete and steel than other products and it is less harmful to the environment than calcium chloride and sodium chloride.
So some of that damage is from the betel and drought stress.
Lets remember sodium chloride does a good job of KILLING evergreens and fish too.

Much is written and said each winter about the effects of anti-icing and de-icing chemicals on the environment, but little is said of their benefits to the traveling public. The truth is that anti-icing and de-icing chemicals are essential to the safe transportation of goods and people. When applied heavily and frequently, chemicals can pollute receiving waters, but the degree of their damage largely depends on the type and designated use of the receiving water, and on the drainage system used to discharge the runoff.

Sodium Chloride (NaCl), Calcium Chloride (CaCl2), and Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2), on the other hand, leave residues of chloride ions on the highway surface that may not only contaminate surrounding ground waters, but they may also corrode motor vehicles and bridge structures.


The effect of high salinity on fish life varies with the tolerance of individual species. Some fish cannot tolerate a salt level as low as 400 ppm, while others are able to live with levels higher than that of seawater (30,000 ppm.) Salt levels in highway runoff vary with the amount of chemicals applied and the intensity of subsequent rainstorm events. Highway runoff can contain salt levels as low as 10 ppm, particularly in areas where chemicals are not used.


It is important to note that chemicals in highway runoff are not the major sources of chloride contamination of waters. Sewage discharges and runoff from industrial waste and agricultural products also contain high concentrations of chloride that may affect receiving waters as well. Rain and snow may deposit as much as 35 to 40 pounds of chloride per acre annually even without the presence of de-icing chemicals.



Chloride(all) (Cl-) is completely soluble and very mobile. Chloride is toxic to aquatic life and impacts vegetation and wildlife. There is no natural process by which chlorides are broken down, metabolized, taken up, or removed from the environment.


Additives to road salt like ferrocyanide, which is used as an anti-caking compound in large salt supplies, can have impacts on both the environment and human health due to cyanide ions being released by certain types of bacteria as well as from exposure to sunlight. The USEPA in 2003 added this compound to its list of toxic pollutants under section 307(a) of the Clean Water Act. Other potential components and impurities of road salt can include calcium, potassium, iron, magnesium, aluminum, lead, phosphorus, manganese, copper, zinc, nickel, chromium, and cadmium.


Elevated sodium and chloride levels in soils create osmotic imbalances in plants, which inhibit water absorption and reduce root growth. Salt also disrupts the uptake of plant nutrients and inhibits long-term growth.



Road-salt ingestion is responsible for kills of elk and bighorn sheep. In northern Ontario and Quebec, ingestion of salty snow-melt is a major cause of moose/vehicle accidents. Salt toxicosis has not been documented in moose or deer, but moose drinking salty water lose their fear of vehicles and humans.




Then are you sure they are not usingCalcium Magnesium Acetate?


Calcium magnesium acetate (CMA) as an alternative to road salt in deicing operations. CMA solution is prepared by dissolving solid CMA in water. Optimal concentration in solution is 25%. NRC concluded that CMA is relatively harmless to plants and animals, noncorrosive to metals, and nondestructive to concrete and other highway materials. Because of its low density and small particle size, CMA may be dusty during handling and storage and may blow off roadways after spreading.



I forgot about my Ice melt/control fetish.









So what is the answer? Heated road ways?

Driving all winter with studded tires, 4wd and chains?

[Idunn]

An interesting exposition on salts.

From that mentioned, yes, obviously addition of salts to the environment, particularly in sensitive places, should be avoided. There would be worse fates than using dedicated winter tires, studded if necessary, and slowing down. Perhaps the acceptance that Colorado experiences at times severe winter weather and snow, and seasonal adjustments in habits might be made.

Such a perspective would help to answer and alleviate many another ill within this state and world as well.