[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by JayCT

50 years ago would be the 70’s, not 1960. By the 70’s it was not easy for people without high school diplomas to get anything but minimum wage jobs. Jay

That’s a very matter of fact statement without much to back it up. There is hardly a difference between the 60s and 70s regarding the ability to get a job.

A friend’s father who relocated from Poland around 1970 scored a manufacturing job without a HS education in Ansonia. My paternal grandparents worked in Bridgeport manufacturing well into the 80’s without any high school education. They made enough to have a wonderful life in Fairfield.

Clearly our personal experiences differ, and oddly enough it’s in the same metro area (Bridgeport).

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

No exaggeration, Jay. First hand experience based info.

I worked in the office of a significant size Bridgeport area manufacturer that employed dozens of them in the late 80s, Jay (they made up > 10% of plant staff). They were paid the union scale at their job, plus incentives. In many cases, as late as 1989 when I quit for a different job, they made as much as several first level office supervisors many weeks. A Fairfield one in the 90s, offered similar pay. It was not sustainable, and one relocated jobs out of Ct, one closed the plant w/o relocating. Plant costs were far too high relative to revenue.

Now , in neither case, could they get the top tier plant jobs, but they got many of the rest.

In neither case would that flat a pay scale, not requiring a hs diploma, exist today in any state.

But I had first hand experience and did a ton of the budgeting, btw, in Ct and one of my Tn corps, which is why I knew the pay scale. I also had union contract copies every year at both for budgeting purposes, and I knew many in the plant personally at both.

PS: Amazon in 2021 will hire w/o a GED, and pay for employees to take courses and tests to acquire one, if needed. Opening too many DCs to avoid doing that.

My NYC corp has subsidiaries with plant staff w/o a GED in large quantities, also. In 2021. We also subsidize them obtaining a GED. That is rare in 2021, though.

You said that high school dropouts were being hired at “solid middle class wage rates” and that wasn’t happening since the 60’s. The recessions of the early 70’s, the continual loss of manufacturing jobs throughout the decades and the increase in technology in manufacturing pretty much sealed that a high school dropout was not getting a decent paying job. I’m not talking about a worker that gets their GED or one that goes for specialty training. I’m talking strictly a high school dropout. Jay

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JayCT

You said that high school dropouts were being hired at “solid middle class wage rates” and that wasn’t happening since the 60’s.

It occurred in the 80s and 90s at 2 plants I worked at. New hires would still sometimes lack a GED.

Now how many more (meaning other companies) I have no firsthand knowledge of. Each still had bloated wage scales in their plants in the 80s and 90s. Neither existed by 1998 in Ct, btw.

The lowest 1/2 of the jobs in a 1980s low-tech plant could be handled w/o a hs diploma btw. Many were fairly simple.

Now those same bloated wage scales led to the jobs being sent elsewhere, and in many cases, still within the USA.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

That’s a very matter of fact statement without much to back it up. There is hardly a difference between the 60s and 70s regarding the ability to get a job.

A friend’s father who relocated from Poland around 1970 scored a manufacturing job without a HS education in Ansonia. My paternal grandparents worked in Bridgeport manufacturing well into the 80’s without any high school education. They made enough to have a wonderful life in Fairfield.

Clearly our personal experiences differ, and oddly enough it’s in the same metro area (Bridgeport).

Interesting you mentioned Ansonia-my first office job was in that city. We employed a lot w/o hs diplomas also, but the plant had a far lower headcount than my FFC ones.

An insistence on a hs diploma in manufacturing was largely a factor of all but high tech manufacturing being all that was left decades later, as well as ERP systems as we then had plant staff needing to know how to use either computer stations or handheld devices to report production on the correct work orders, with correct operations, correct start/stop times, etc, on a keyboard. Even then, on a crew of many, just one would be trained on reporting, plus one backup for that employee's days off.

ERPs only went mainstream to the lowest employee reporting level the last 20 years or so.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

That’s a very matter of fact statement without much to back it up. There is hardly a difference between the 60s and 70s regarding the ability to get a job.

A friend’s father who relocated from Poland around 1970 scored a manufacturing job without a HS education in Ansonia. My paternal grandparents worked in Bridgeport manufacturing well into the 80’s without any high school education. They made enough to have a wonderful life in Fairfield.

Clearly our personal experiences differ, and oddly enough it’s in the same metro area (Bridgeport).

The ten years we are talking about made a HUGE difference. By the 70’s manufacturing was changing. Bridgeport was already beginning to lose factories. The recessions of 1979-1970 and 1973-1975 meant there were more people out looking for jobs. Also technology was coming into manufacturing which required more ability than a high school dropout possessed.

You are once again bending what I said. BobNJ1960 said that high school dropouts were being hired at “solid middle class wage rates” and that was not happening. Your friends father likely started at minimum wage, not solid middle class wages. He likely worked overtime if available or had a second job. His wife also likely worked. All that could get you a wonderful life in Fairfield back then BUT that is not what I am talking about or what BobNJ1960 said. Jay

[JayCT]

Please stop the bickering and off topic discussion. JayCT, Moderator

[BPt111]

Homicides totals so far in CT cities


Hartford, CT 33 homicides with 159 shooting victims (2020 total homicides was 25 with 228 shooting victims)
New Haven, CT 25 with 104 shooting victims (2020 total was 20 homicides with 127 shooting victims)
Bridgeport, CT 21 with 129 shooting victims (2020 total was 24 homicides with 140 shooting victims)

Waterbury, CT 10 with 49 shooting victims
Stamford, CT 5

Meriden, CT 4
Hamden, CT 3

New London, CT 1
Norwalk, CT 2
Danbury, CT 1


Nearby NE cities

Providence 22, Springfield 13 Worcester5, Brockton 5, New Bedford 4, Fall River 4, Lawrence 3, Lynn 2, Lowell 5

[mdovell]

Work crime or also heroes to adjust for per capita and even then where within the cities. I'd argue crime, especially violent crime doesn't attract people. If it's the same groups attacking each other (i.e gangs) that can explain it.

[SteveM85]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Work crime or also heroes to adjust for per capita and even then where within the cities. I'd argue crime, especially violent crime doesn't attract people. If it's the same groups attacking each other (i.e gangs) that can explain it.

No question. I wonder how many homocides infallible Boston experienced.
Also a couple in Milford and Guilford were left off the list. Probably others.
Crazy these days

[BPt111]

Originally Posted by SteveM85

No question. I wonder how many homocides infallible Boston experienced.
Also a couple in Milford and Guilford were left off the list. Probably others.
Crazy these days

Boston have 37 homicides which is 4 more than Hartford. Boston is almost 6 times the population and major city.