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Old 02-07-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,395 posts, read 8,349,307 times
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Wouldn't have anything to do with "the great one" opening up the southern borders to kids from Latin America?

 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
I agree with everyone, no conspiracy we get Measles outbreaks in America every year, they make good headlines. Even if we acheived a 100% vaccination rate for children here we would still get outbreaks. We have a high rate already of children who are vaccinated but adults are a different story. Most of this hype gets centered around parents who don't vax their kids, but that really isn't the problem, that's a very small part of the population who is subject to Measles. Adults haven't gotten boosters and travel to other countries and bring it back. Adults come here with Measles and bring it in, just like they did with Ebola. We don't require adults vax's for Measles when traveling or maybe the outbreaks would be smaller.

I get real sick of hearing these parents and these kids who don't vax are the cause of outbreaks. They are only involved, we would still have small outbreaks yearly if all kids were vaccinated. Babies would still get it because they are to young for their vax. It takes a herd, and the real problem is the adults in our herd who aren't immune, not the kids. Adults are mostly responsible for traveling abroad and bringing back illness, not 6, 7 and 8 year old.

In 2000 America was stated to be eliminated from our country. It's other countries where it is not eliminated that is the problem. Why people waste time and hatred on blaming the very few parents that don't vax here I have no idea. It's a waste of time, and just causes conflict. It's no mystery in America why we get outbreaks yearly, totally expected. We follow them yearly. Even if every child had a vaccine we would still get these outbreaks.
Measles outbreaks will stop when we have eliminated it from all other countries.
It is rare for a measles outbreak in the US to be started by a vaccinated person. Where the index case has been identified it is almost always an unvaccinated person. Outbreaks happen where there are clusters of unvaccinated people. We will always have the infants, those with medical contraindications to vaccination, and those who do not get protection from the vaccine, but those people do not all live in the same towns or go to the same schools and churches.

When vaccinated people do get measles, they tend to have milder disease, shed less virus, and are less likely to give it to others.

The first case in an outbreak is usually (but not always) unvaccinated, but the spread of an outbreak is in the unvaccinated population. That is just a fact.

How do we eliminate measles in other countries without vaccinating people? Do we somehow make them vaccinate so that people in the US do not have to? People in Europe stopped vaccinating for the same reason people in the US did: primarily fear of autism. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to say if you are French you must vaccinate your child so unvaccinated Americans can visit your country and not risk getting measles?

I believe we should require international travelers to be vaccinated or show immunity to measles. People could decide whether they wanted to not vaccinate and stay home or vaccinate and travel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Very well put. I have been saying the same. The percentage of unvaccinated children is very small. The percentage of unvaccinated/undervaccinated adults is very high. Easier to identify, and enforce on, unvaccinated little children. How with adults?
The adults who vaccinate their children tend to vaccinate themselves. Some adults have just been lazy about keeping up to date, and as this thread shows, some are deciding, in view of the current outbreak, to talk with their doctors. As far as measles is concerned, most adults are still protected by their childhood vaccines, which is why measles boosters are not routine for adults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
Right, and "someone who had been out of the country... [and] visited an area where measles still circulates" only happens how many times? Several million, perhaps? And it could just well be someone who believes they're safe because they (think they) were unvaccinated but in fact are still at risk -- which it turns out could be the majority of people. Yet measels outbreaks and cases have (supposedly) been very low -- until 2014...
In outbreaks where the person starting the outbreak can be identified, the index case is almost universally unvaccinated.

Quote:
Measels cases in the USA have ranged between c. 40 and 200 since 2001, the exception being last year (2014) when it suddenly spiked. If what you're claiming is true, then there really should have been a steady and significant growth during this period.
The number of cases in an outbreak will depend on the population into which it is introduced. If that population is largely unvaccinated, there will be more cases. That is what happened at Disneyland: one outbreak, a large number of cases.

There is no reason to expect a linear relationship between the number of unvaccinated people and the number of cases. There were 17 outbreaks in the US in 2011, 11 in 2013, and 23 last year. In 2012, there were only a few outbreaks and 55 total cases.

If the initial case has contact with mostly vaccinated people, the outbreak will be small. If the initial case infects people who have contact with many unvaccinated people, the outbreak will be larger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
There is rising suspicion of government programs among immigrants from countries where the CIA has known to be or rumored to have been active in mass vaccination programs. The most obvious example is Pakistan where the CIA set up public vaccination programs to spy on people. In Nigeria and other African countries, there are reports that the aid workers are security contractors sent to assist local insurgencies. There is also Bill Gates and his foundation talking about the use of vaccination programs to sterilize women in the third world.
Bill Gates has never talked about "the use of vaccination programs to sterilize women in the third world." He merely pointed out that if fewer children died due to infectious diseases, parents would have fewer children, because they would not have to have a dozen kids in order for two or three to survive. Childbirth in third world countries is risky. Smaller families have economic benefits. Gates was, in essence, describing what has happened in the US, where smaller families are the norm. There is no way to sterilize a woman with a vaccine.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,972 posts, read 98,814,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
I recently researched this because I have a grandson born with SCID and immunizations for the whole family are critical.

What I learned is that if you were born in 1957 or after you need to get a booster. If you were born before 1957, you are considered to be immune because

"People born before 1957 lived through several years of epidemic measles before the first measles vaccine was licensed. As a result, these people are very likely to have had the measles disease. Surveys suggest that 95% to 98% of those born before 1957 are immune to measles. Note: The "1957 rule" applies only to measles and mumps—it does NOT apply to rubella."

That's from the CDC. Down at the bottom of the page.


This is the correct information about people born before 1957. The live measles vaccine came out in 1963. Prior to that, there was a killed measles vaccine (killed virus) that didn't work as well. It remained on the market until 1968. People born between 1957 and 1967 (you have to be a year old to get measles vaccine) may not have the benefit of natural immunity, and may have received the less effective vaccine. Some of these people may have had natural measles.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-07-2015 at 10:28 AM..
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,972 posts, read 98,814,535 times
Reputation: 31381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
Wouldn't have anything to do with "the great one" opening up the southern borders to kids from Latin America?
No. There are stats all over the place here on CD about this. Central/South Americans have vaccine rates similar to the US'.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:10 AM
 
9,670 posts, read 7,644,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
It's my opinion that the measles outbreak was a good thing even though some got real sick. I didn't know until this week that people who were born in 1957 or before are at risk because they were only given one vaccine (norm at the time) instead of the (now) required two.

I also didn't know that it is possible that older peoples once thought solid immunity could be an issue now and that said immunity can be checked with a simple blood test with a booster given if needed.

I'm going to get mine checked next time I get my blood run, better safe then sorry.
Many of us who were born in 1957 or before have natural immunity: we had the measles as children. It went through my third grade class like wildfire - I missed two weeks of school, including the unit on American Indians and the Valentine party! I had to stay in bed with the shades drawn and wasn't allowed to read, a real hardship for me, far worse than the spots and fever. I remember my pediatrician made a couple of house calls, and my mother read to me ("The Swiss Family Robinson", which my visiting doctor called a dull book!) to help with the boredom.

Thankfully, my ill classmates and I all had comparatively light cases, but that's not always the situation. My g-grandparents lost a 20 year old daughter to a measles outbreak during the early days of the Civil War - the same outbreak led to the deaths of many young soldiers mustering at Fort Smith, Arkansas, not far from where my ancestral family lived. Great Aunt Tish, a young wife, left a toddler daughter who was also ill, but who survived - motherless.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauriedeee View Post
I'm glad you brought that up because I was reading an article yesterday about a previously vaccinated adult who came down with the measles but I didn't know that people who were vaccinated before 1957 were more at risk though.. damnit.

I'll get the blood test too.

eta,, I just read the post above mine.. hmm.. I'll check into it, but I'll probably get the blood test done anyway just to be on the safe side.
Those of us born before 1957 almost all had measles and are presumed immune. Those who got the first measles vaccine, which used killed virus, in the early 1960s, may not be protected, because it was not very effective. Two doses of the live virus vaccine, available since 1967, protect all but a few percent of the people who take it.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/0...he-virus/?_r=0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
Wouldn't have anything to do with "the great one" opening up the southern borders to kids from Latin America?
No. Latin American countries vaccinate against measles, some having higher vaccination rates than the US.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:16 AM
 
9,670 posts, read 7,644,282 times
Reputation: 17517
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
There is rising suspicion of government programs among immigrants from countries where the CIA has known to be or rumored to have been active in mass vaccination programs. The most obvious example is Pakistan where the CIA set up public vaccination programs to spy on people. In Nigeria and other African countries, there are reports that the aid workers are security contractors sent to assist local insurgencies. There is also Bill Gates and his foundation talking about the use of vaccination programs to sterilize women in the third world.
Please cite sources for your claim concerning Bill Gates and your claim that the CIA set up vaccination programs in Pakistan in order to "spy on people".
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26471
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
Please cite sources for your claim concerning Bill Gates and your claim that the CIA set up vaccination programs in Pakistan in order to "spy on people".
The Gates controversy explained:

Bill Gates, Vaccines and Human Depopulation | Debunking Denialism

Unfortunately, vaccination workers were recruited in the hunt for bin Laden.

CIA Says It Will No Longer Use Vaccine Programs As Cover : The Two-Way : NPR
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:43 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,036,584 times
Reputation: 3138
anti-vaccination movement. These horrible preventable diseases we had almost completely licked are making a comeback because of these morons.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque area
244 posts, read 181,561 times
Reputation: 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by IheartWA View Post

(snipped for space)

There is a movement today that science is bad, or not real. It's just a theory, not something that can be proven by fact. The Internet and social media definitely have something to do with it.
Well said. Once upon a time we were afraid of nuclear war bombing us back into the Dark Ages. Turns out nuclear warfare isn't even necessary. Between fear-mongering politicians, tinfoil hat conspiracies, quasi-medical quackery and a strangely gullible populace, we are perfectly willing to go back to the Dark Ages under our own steam.
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