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Old 11-04-2015, 07:45 PM
 
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Isnt the modern man to busy crying and being afraid of guns to have a family?
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Old 11-05-2015, 12:40 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
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both sides of the coin are correct. On one hand, things were tougher back then, as we didn't have all of the social progress and technology we do now. OTOH, folks are expected to get more done with less, worse overall job market, and with each generation, the US gets closer and closer to going to S#$%.

I have a sister and bro-in-law raising 2 kids. They both make good $$, but a recent promotion took them to a rather higher area cost of living. They worry about finances a surprising amount given their incomes, and are constantly working. FWIW, they are closer to my parents, so it does make them happy. Not to mention they can take advantage of their baby sitting "services".

It sucks being single, but even though it's the wrong idea, hearing the woes of those married with children makes things better, even if it's only for awhile.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I am not a parent or have kids but it does seem like so many of my colleagues and friends who are happen to be in a constant tizzy.

One of my colleagues drive sixty miles one way through hellish traffic once he gets to the city - it's often ninety minutes one way. Lay that commute on top of ten work days and two small kids and it's a wonder he's still going. Meanwhile, I've made the decision to not have kids, am home in fifteen minutes or so, and have the evenings to myself and my girlfriend.

Do you see most modern families in a constant state of stress?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/05/up...mily.html?_r=0
Yes I do. I see it in my own family and I see it many other families in the neighborhood.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Yes, families live in a state of stress - it's called being alive.

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this woe-be-gone "Life is so terrible now!" line of thinking, which implicitly suggests that days gone by were days of wonder and delight.

What's the poverty rate today? It's lower than it was fifty years ago, and a lot lower than it was eighty years ago, before Social Security. How's that stress over polio and all those other diseases that used to give us a much higher childhood mortality rate? All those dead kids, and just the knowledge that your kids were more likely to die then than now, might've been a bit of a source of stress, no? How about that six-day twelve-hours-per-day workweek? A general life expectancy decades shorter than now? How stress-free was life in the Gilded Age, or for non-whites in the good old South, or for women when marital rape was legal in every state through 1975 and when credit could only be had with a husband's permission? How stressed were parents when their kids were driving on roads that were far more dangerous in the past? Or going off into a world of a violent crime rate that was significantly higher twenty, thirty, forty years ago than today? By almost every actual verifiable metric, there's less to be stressed about today than there was in the 'good old days'.

I am married with three children. I'll take the stress of 2015 over that of thirty or sixty or ninety years ago, thanks.
It depends. If you are constantly going, going, going 6-7 days a week, 12-15 hour days in order to meet the demands of modern life, its extremely stressful. Stress isn't healthy. Human beings need downtime. I think you are ignoring the fact that while some societal ills have been lessened or eradicated, new ones have cropped up in their place.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:07 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,298,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Book Lover 21 View Post
So many people voluntarily take on too much.

All these year-round soccer leagues and private pitching lessons, math tutors and Spanish tutors.

Choosing to take a job over an hour away instead just living more frugally.

In many cases, the stress is caused by our own choices.
What in the world is wrong with math and Spanish tutors? Also, you don't have to be an elite soccer league to have practices several nights a week. Wrestling, swimming, basketball, baseball, karate, dance - all of them hold practices several nights per week. What is a parent to do? Stop the kids from participating?

Some people don't have the luxury of moving closer to work due to family responsibilities, home ownership and a myriad of other reasons.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:13 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,298,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
You make some good points, but after 1920 or so with the exception of some very bad periods (such as the early 1930's), most people who were willing to work hard were assured of some security, even before FDR. (This, of course, assumes good health and no major catastrophes of any kind.) Until about 1975 or so, most families could survive on ONE paycheck without government assistance and also save a little for retirement. Most women were not expected to have a full-time job even if they had a husband and/or children. Most people did not have all the luxuries people are expected to have now (such as cellphones), and yet, somehow, they managed without them. Also back then, most people did not worry too much about losing their jobs or being able to afford retirement, and young people were confident that they could find a good job. (Again, this assumes they were hard working with skills and education.) Back then (with the aforementioned exception of the Great Depression), not too many people with college degrees were working in low-level retail or restaurant jobs. People were also much more optimistic in general back then -- and I think they were also, generally speaking, much happier and content with their lives. (No, I do not have a link, but I am 62 years old, and I know what people were like back when I was young compared to what I hear and read about what people of all ages think about their lives now.)

Yes, of course, things were not all peaches and cream back then -- especially for those were were not "white" or not strictly heterosexual or who did not fit the middle-class "norm" -- but for middle-class "whites" in general, I think pre-1980 was much better than post-1980.

Oh, and btw, I can only speak from personal experience after 1960 or so, but I know of no one whose kids kids died from polio or other such sickness, and I know of no one who worked more than 40 hours a week unless that was the nature of their profession (such as doctors or business owners). Before 1960 or so, that might very well have been the case, but it wasn't in the 1960's or early 70's -- in my experience, anyway. Oh, and violent crime? How many people have been killed in school and mass shootings in the 25 years since 1990 compared to the 25 years before then? I don't know the answer to that, but I would be willing to bet there have been a LOT more deaths on school campuses in the most recent 25 years than the 25 years before then.

Yes, I do realize that a case CAN be made that things are better now, but in my opinion, with very few exceptions (for example, in tolerance of "minorities", advances in birth control, and many medical advances), they definitely are NOT.

Excellent post.

I wanted to add something about children's activities since that seems to be a popular target in these discussions.

Kids today don't play outside like they did in past generations. And its not because they are rotting away inside playing video games. Many of these kids are at daycares, after school programs. With the proliferation of Stranger Danger, so many modern parents are afraid to give their children free rein to play outside. So, most kids are involved in one activity or another and that is where children socialize today. As a parent, if I decide to stop activities, I am also choosing to stop socialization with their friends.

I wish life was like it was in decades past where dozens of kids would be playing outside, mom could stay home and clean, cook and take care of her family. (Or dad of course!) And lets not blame modern strides in equal rights or feminism. The need to constantly go, go, go lies squarely at the feet of TPTB that have made it necessary to work two full time jobs to survive.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:26 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,156 posts, read 12,956,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
Try doing it all as a single mom
No thanks. I'm quite happy being married with two dogs and a part time job. It's a life nearly stress free, and I'm very grateful for that.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:29 AM
 
4,899 posts, read 6,223,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
Try doing it all as a single mom
^^^Hardest job of all.

The article did mention 2nd shift so this is not a new problem. In some ways it is more difficult today
since parents may need to relocate or move around for jobs vs more stable jobs during the 60's & 70's.
Also today's technology allows many parents to work from home.
However, during the late 70's and 80's everyone I knew (also had college degrees) it was necessary
for most couples to work full time. The difference back then (other than having a nanny or
grandparents willing to baby sit) was day care and a child had to be potty trained or at least 2 years
old to attend.
Our solution was to work separate shifts (I did nights - he did days). Were we tired and/or stressed?
Yes, but looking back, we managed and now that our children are adults, I miss those crazy days.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,452 posts, read 4,749,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
People were also much more optimistic in general back then -- and I think they were also, generally speaking, much happier and content with their lives.
I remember even back in the 80's there was a sense of optimism and wonder about the future, whereas nowadays pretty much everyone's vision of the future is that things are going to get a lot worse before they get any better. That lack of real hope about the future has got to take its toll on our national psyche.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:52 AM
 
Location: The Jar
20,048 posts, read 18,303,705 times
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IOW, too many people trying to make up for what their parents didn't give them by giving "it all" to their children. It simply can't and mustn't be done. Life is not that simple. The kids are going to resent you for something regardless. So why not get out of the pressure cooker of trying to give and be everything to them?!
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