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See's here's the problem with your "panic" one certain poster who lives in Georgia and should know better. Yes, darling, I know it snows in Georgia too.
Mosquitoes with temps under 70 degrees? Even here in South Florida that alone cuts down the mosquito population, let alone WINTER with snow and sub freezing temps up North. Listen to the Rio Athletes where it is Winter there now. "Not seeing mosquitoes". Remove standing water when it doesn't rains for MONTHS? Up North? FROZEN Standing Water is going to breed mosquitoes?
Give it maybe until October when nights up North get into the 40's. Fear of MOSQUITOES? I would be willing to bet that even Georgia nights can get into the 40's if Florida's do in Winter.
This is going to fade from the public minds when the Fall Leaves start turning and Falling. Sorry, you "health professionals" promoting fear and more vaccines.
This is why the Big Pharms are not rushing for a Zika vaccine. Not enough of the general public fear it or would want it. "I am not pregnant, not trying, want to be, or can't be". "My already born children or I am not going to DIE from Zika".
Naled is banned in the European Union. Puerto Rico refused to accept US shipments of Naled because it can cause birth defects. So they are going to spray something that can cause birth defects to PREVENT birth defects???? They are using that here in Florida and people in Miami are protesting that. Yet, we hear people here calling for using DDT, which did cause birth defects and why it was banned? It was not only due to the harm caused to animal population. Puerto Rico is using an herbicide to kill larvae.
"When applied in accordance with the recommended amount and the safety precautions on the label, Dibrom can be used to kill mosquitoes without endangering human health or the environment."
"Studies in experimental animals have not shown Dibrom to cause cancer, birth defects, or adverse effects on reproduction. It is not known whether Dibrom causes cancer, birth defects, or any adverse effects on reproduction in humans."
For obvious reasons, the product will never be actively tested on humans to see if it causes cancer or birth defects, but I cannot find any reports indicating that it does.
I have never said that Zika is the only cause of microcephaly. Please provide a link to any post I have made that says that.
I didn't say that you said that. Go back over the conversation, if needed. Post #113 is where it started. You said that nobody thinks zika is the only cause and I replied that the MSM isn't investigating other reasons; they are just making automatic connections to zika. I think they're overlooking something else that is provoking this microcephaly epidemic. You countered and insist that they *are* looking at other causes but you won't show me this news. I said I don't watch *much* news, and what I've seen is the connection between zika and the birth defects. Besides when worded in the same sentence as "conspiracy theory", I have NOT seen mention of GM mosquitoes or pesticide usage in the mainstream media.
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There's a Nobel prize waiting for you if you can provide a treatment that will prevent Zika infections from causing birth defects. That is the main issue with the disease. Otherwise it most often requires no treatment at all, so whatever "alternative" stuff you want to use is fine. Zika will go away no matter what you do. If you catch it while you are pregnant, there is nothing that can be done.
I was talking about me personally. *I* would rather not put more vaccines in my body. You may certainly feel free to take another jab, though.
It is NOT guaranteed that a pregnant zika-infected lady will deliver a baby with birth defects.
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What I said was, "Pesticides make foods plentiful. While I would not dine on them, properly used on crops they are not dangerous."
The key phrase is "properly used".
You can post all the links you want to.
What part of those papers didn't you understand? You can flounder all you want, but that doesn't change the truth. Pesticides can make people sick. It's not an overnight occurrence; it's an accumulative burden.
Ironically, there are thousands of prescription drug deaths every year--even when "properly used".
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Fundamentally it is. It is also done by Mother Nature without human intervention. Did you know that viruses can insert their nucleic acids into human cells?
Yes, but there's a difference. Nature doesn't slice and dice DNA with no regard to what happens on down the line.
Why don't we start with your belief that you have diagnosed "cancer" in yourself using an HCG test? Promoting the discredited Gonzalez treatment for cancer?
For one thing, you're wrong. For another thing, I haven't made any mention of my personal life in this thread. Stay focused, please.
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The connection between Zika and birth defects is no longer doubted by people with expertise in virology.
The risk that a woman infected with Zika will have an affected baby is significant. Some babies may escape being damaged, but there is no way to tell which pregnancy will be affected and which will not.
I'm not saying that there are no risks to a baby born to an infected mother.
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The experts who have examined these babies have done just that, including looking for other infections and ruling out genetic causes.
What they're finding is an absence of zika infection in most of the babies born with microcephaly. Only a small percentage were testing positive. Why do you keep ignoring that?
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I do not think you read the article in your link.
“'We haven't seen ADE in vaccines,' said Fauci. 'I'm not playing it down, I’m aware of it. But I don't think ADE will be a prohibitive problem in Zika vaccines.'"
Another person is quoted as saying both dengue and Zika vaccines are needed.
A vaccine containing one strain protects against other strains, unlike the dengue vaccine.
Oh, I read it. Obviously you're cherry-picking out quotes. I guess I will do the same...
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“It's clear as the nose on my face: Vaccine recipients less than 5 years old had five to seven times more rates of hospitalizations for severe dengue virus than placebo controls."
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"The vaccine is even worse than an infection, because it has all different antibodies that wane over time, and the T cells from yellow fever," Halstead said.
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Russell isn't convinced. "In ADE we wouldn't expect to have different clinical presentations or viremia. The fact is they haven't disproved the ADE hypothesis or come up with any good explanation why you have up to relative risk of 5 or 6 [for hospitalization of seronegative children]."
Furthermore, Russell said the serologic status at enrollment of hospitalized children was collected in only 8% to 19% of subjects, which offers an incomplete picture. "They are trying hard [to ignore this,] because they have $2 billion invested in this vaccine," Russell said.
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"Our results suggest that pre-existing DENV immunity will enhance ZIKV infection in vivo and may increase disease severity," the authors write. "If ZIKV ADE is fundamentally similar to DENV ADE, it is highly likely that preexisting anti-DENV antibodies will increase ZIKV viremia in humans and lead to more severe disease in vivo."
The authors suggest that this means Zika may transmit more quickly and be more infectious in areas where dengue is endemic.
I didn't say that you said that. Go back over the conversation, if needed. Post #113 is where it started. You said that nobody thinks zika is the only cause and I replied that the MSM isn't investigating other reasons; they are just making automatic connections to zika. I think they're overlooking something else that is provoking this microcephaly epidemic. You countered and insist that they *are* looking at other causes but you won't show me this news. I said I don't watch *much* news, and what I've seen is the connection between zika and the birth defects. Besides when worded in the same sentence as "conspiracy theory", I have NOT seen mention of GM mosquitoes or pesticide usage in the mainstream media.
The MSM is reporting what has been given to them. Reporters have no way to investigate the causes of microcephaly. That is done by physicians taking care of real babies. Those doctors have to do such things as determine which babies have small heads because they are small babies and totally normal. Babies determined to have microcephaly are tested for evidence of other infections and for chromosomal abnormalities associated with microcephaly. It's not just a matter of saying, "This baby has microcephaly. It must be due to Zika."
"Microcephaly is associated with numerous genetic etiologies, including chromosomal and metabolic disorders and also non-genetic causes. Non-genetic causes include congenital infections including the TORCH infections (toxoplasmosis, rubella, cytomegalovirus and herpes), syphilis, varicella–zoster, parvovirus B19 and humanimmunodeficiency virus (HIV). Other non-genetic causes include intrauterine exposure to teratogens such as alcohol and ionizing radiation, pre- and perinatal injuries to the developing brain (hypoxia-ischaemia, trauma, stroke), and severe malnutrition. Depending on the timing of insult, the
onset of microcephaly may be prenatal or postnatal."
Frankly, all you are doing is showing us that you do not know what you do not know.
The news reports have followed the evolution of the Zika story from "we do not know if Zika causes birth defects, including microcephaly" to "we now know Zika causes birth defects, including microcephaly.."
That does not mean all microcephaly is caused by Zika and it does not mean Zika always causes microcephaly.
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I was talking about me personally. *I* would rather not put more vaccines in my body. You may certainly feel free to take another jab, though.
Feel free to reject vaccines if you wish. I will continue to tell readers here why that is not a Good Idea.
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It is NOT guaranteed that a pregnant zika-infected lady will deliver a baby with birth defects.
No one has said it is. The risk is significant, though.
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What part of those papers didn't you understand? You can flounder all you want, but that doesn't change the truth. Pesticides can make people sick. It's not an overnight occurrence; it's an accumulative burden.
No matter what you eat, unless you grow it all yourself, you are exposed to pesticides. Even organic growers use them. Despite that, life expectancy in the US keeps increasing.
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Ironically, there are thousands of prescription drug deaths every year--even when "properly used".
What does that have to do with Zika?
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Yes, but there's a difference. Nature doesn't slice and dice DNA with no regard to what happens on down the line.
Oh, but she does. Random mutations happen all the time. Natural selection does the rest.
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I'm not saying that there are no risks to a baby born to an infected mother.
You are doing your best to trivialize the risk, though, and it appears to be solely because of the prospect that the risk can be prevented with a vaccine.
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What they're finding is an absence of zika infection in most of the babies born with microcephaly. Only a small percentage were testing positive. Why do you keep ignoring that?
Part of the problem is that the tests were not done in many babies because no one was looking for Zika. You have to know what to look for in order to order the test for it. In the past, the infections that were tested for were toxoplasmosis, rubella, cytomegalovirus, and herpes. Chickenpox and HIV can also cause problems. Zika will need to be added to that list.
Now that we know to look for Zika, pregnant women can be tested for Zika and their pregnancies followed prospectively. That will give the experts an idea what happens depending on when the infection occurs in the pregnancy. it will also make it possible to determine what the risk for having a child with birth defects is given a known Zika infection in pregnancy.
In addition, it has taken time to even develop clinically useful tests.
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Oh, I read it. Obviously you're cherry-picking out quotes. I guess I will do the same...
Your attempt to divert from the topic of the thread is noted.
The discussion is about Zika, not the dengue vaccine, and the problem discussed in the article is speculative. I know you do not want to hear it, but the solution, if the speculation is shown to be an actual problem, is to vaccinate against both dengue and Zika.
Why am I not surprised? A vaccine will not be profitable unless it is targeted to the population as a whole, not just a small segment like pregnant women. Although I still cannot see how they can promote the fear in the general public come Winter Weather in the Northern US as far as mosquitoes go. Zika infection is airborne among infected individuals too? You can almost write the headlines in advance.
Why am I not surprised? A vaccine will not be profitable unless it is targeted to the population as a whole, not just a small segment like pregnant women. Although I still cannot see how they can promote the fear in the general public come Winter Weather in the Northern US as far as mosquitoes go. Zika infection is airborne among infected individuals too? You can almost write the headlines in advance.
You really do not understand that infected mosquitoes will overwinter and re-emerge when it warms up? What do you think happens to mosquitoes each year? Spontaneous generation?
The vaccine was always going to be targeted at the population as a whole - just like rubella vaccine is.
Why is the prospect of a vaccine that could prevent birth defects so threatening to you?
Did you read this article? This is going beyond just preventing birth defects in babies to zika attacking adult brain cells causing memory loss, etc. Like Dementia? You do not get it. They have to spread fear to the general public that THEY themselves, not just pregnant women or their partners, can have major illness from Zika in order to promote mass vaccination when/if that vaccine ever comes.
All those people who had Zika now have immunity to it and won't need that Zika vaccine, just like Rubella. Diseases give immunity not just vaccinations. If you had Rubella as a child, would you say you must get that MMR vaccination anyway? I am sure you would say that just to be "safe".
Did you read this article? This is going beyond just preventing birth defects in babies to zika attacking adult brain cells causing memory loss, etc. Like Dementia? You do not get it. They have to spread fear to the general public that THEY themselves, not just pregnant women or their partners, can have major illness from Zika in order to promote mass vaccination when/if that vaccine ever comes.
All those people who had Zika now have immunity to it and won't need that Zika vaccine, just like Rubella. Diseases give immunity not just vaccinations. If you had Rubella as a child, would you say you must get that MMR vaccination anyway? I am sure you would say that just to be "safe".
The reason we vaccinate children against rubella (including boys) is to protect pregnant women and prevent congenital rubella syndrome.
Someone who had rubella would not need the rubella vaccine, but there is no way to guarantee that every female would get rubella before she was able to get pregnant. There were about 20,000 cases of congenital rubella syndrome during the 1964-1965 rubella epidemic.
Those who have not had Zika are still susceptible to it, including women of childbearing age. Pregnant women who get Zika do develop immunity to it, but unfortunately their babies may have severe birth defects as a result.
You act as if they are making up the effect of Zika on adults. Sorry, that's just generating another conspiracy theory. Zika may or may not affect the nervous system in adults. We need more evidence to be sure. However, even if it does not, everyone with no contraindications to Zika should take the vaccine when one is available. I know you will not, but that is all right. No one will make you, though heaven only knows why you are so dead set against vaccines.
You do not like the concept of natural, unvaccinated immunity. I get that. If you Google Zika in these other countries, you will see on scientific sites they are saying that Zika may have played itself out since so many of the general public has been infected. So if a woman or teen gets infected long before she has a child, she will produce antibodies when she does decide to have children. It was the same with Rubella, and Mumps with males, long before there ever was an MMR vaccine. Few hosts to infect. Yes, I understand that with a Zika vaccine, you will promote it as young as possible for the future just like HPV. You can pass legislation mandating childhood vaccination, but you will have a major problem legislating adult vaccination, unless you want to declare a Pandemic for every "preventable" vaccine that exists. While the majority (except the younger generation) of people, might favor mandatory vaccines for children, you are getting into dangerous territory if you think that the same rules should apply for adults. Welcome to the real world. Do not try to say it is only me. Flu, Tdap, Shingles shots show where the public's mindset it.
You do not like the concept of natural, unvaccinated immunity. I get that. If you Google Zika in these other countries, you will see on scientific sites they are saying that Zika may have played itself out since so many of the general public has been infected. So if a woman or teen gets infected long before she has a child, she will produce antibodies when she does decide to have children. It was the same with Rubella, and Mumps with males, long before there ever was an MMR vaccine. Few hosts to infect. Yes, I understand that with a Zika vaccine, you will promote it as young as possible for the future just like HPV. You can pass legislation mandating childhood vaccination, but you will have a major problem legislating adult vaccination, unless you want to declare a Pandemic for every "preventable" vaccine that exists. While the majority (except the younger generation) of people, might favor mandatory vaccines for children, you are getting into dangerous territory if you think that the same rules should apply for adults. Welcome to the real world. Do not try to say it is only me. Flu, Tdap, Shingles shots show where the public's mindset it.
Most of the diseases for which you get "natural" immunity make folks very ill, sometimes leaving them with significant disabilities or killing them. With a vaccine you get the immunity without being sick, and if you are dead your "natural" immunity becomes a moot point.
For rubella, 20,000 cases of congenital rubella syndrome in one year shows that not every woman was infected with rubella before reaching childbearing age. There were plenty of hosts to infect.
The majority of older adults support mandatory vaccination of children. That is because they are older - they've seen personally what vaccine preventable diseases can do.
Adults will take vaccines if they are advised to do so. One thing doctors need to do better is talk to adults about them. Many are unvaccinated only because they are unaware of the need to be.
It seems that the way you try to validate your anti-vax stance is to try to convince us that everyone your age feels the way you do. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is not true.
Hopefully, nature has finally come up with something to control human overpopulation. We can only hope.
You do realize that most developed civilizations are in a population DECLINE?
Third world countries are increasing, but the population of many developed countries is in jeopardy, and only getting worse.
You think that is something to celebrate?
Ask China and Japan if they want to come to your party.
Sometimes ignorance isn't bliss, it's just downright pathetic.
Last edited by chadgates; 08-19-2016 at 01:25 PM..
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