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Same for me. Clara has been hitting it out of the park. Same with someone else, starts with a P, forgot their name on here, but both of them are really doing it on here. making SO much sense.
.We need to be preparing women for the very real possibility that they may not get justice, even when there IS evidence. And where there is none, and no memory, they don't get to make up an ending. They get to learn to live with the uncertainty.
(standing O.)
Also, I can't imagine why any reasonable person would - with no memory of what happened, with the reality of alcohol intoxication playing a role and with no history of violence on the part of the accused - choose the worst case scenario. Who does that? Why not choose to believe she WASN'T assaulted?[/quote]
It seems to me that with the whirlwind of things going on these past few years is why. She has folks behinds her hyping her up, using her for their agenda's. Folks influenced her to go ahead this way, no matter what it does to another person. Tho she too can be capable of this stuff herself but either way she's been "promoted" to keep going like this. Smh
How? One doesn't have to black out to be intoxicated/impaired, so how do you determine that he was "sober enough" to know what he was doing was wrong, or what "sober enough" is for him?
You're also operating on the assumption that a) he knew when she passed out and b) that she passed out. No one has established that.
What you would do in his situation is really irrelevant. He was the one in that situation, drunk, being confronted by a stranger in an aggressive manner. Running would actually be totally reasonable, whether or not he was guilty. And even guilty people don't want to get their butts kicked.
Because remembering everything that took place and being able to articulate why you were laughing when apprehended shows attention to detail and a sense of awareness, which is not something that I'd expect someone who was so impaired as to not know right from wrong to have.
And what I would do is relevant as I don't think I'm out of the norm in this. The standard is how a reasonable person would respond. Not how he responded. And a reasonable person who is consensually engaging in sexual activity with a willing person doesn't fear getting their butt kicked from people who happen to stumble upon him.
I think the way the law was written at the time of the incident it could not be qualified as a rape- as it was an “outercourse”- this could explain a shorter sentence given by the judge.
They change the law since- the “ outercourse” is now considered rape as well.
He was found guilty of three felony sexual assault charges:
Assault with the intent to commit rape of an unconscious person
Sexual penetration of an unconscious person
Sexual penetration of an intoxicated
He faced 14 years prison, maximum sentence.
He was sentenced to 6 mos. in the county jail.
He served three months in the county jail.
It boggles me when people pull out this line. In situations like this one a drunk woman who passes out is not using being drunk as an excuse for raping someone. The woman just passes out. The man actively chooses to hurt another person. It's not a man drunk=woman drunk situation, it's apples and oranges - it's a "laying down and passing out" vs. "choosing to rape" situation.
If a drunk man passes out and wakes up to a drunk woman sexually assaulting him, then he deserves the same consideration.
Yes this is a good point. Women generally lay there incapacitated or completely passed out. A guy it seems no matter how drunk never passes up an opportunity to try and penetrate anything that happens to be next to him even if it’s a potted plant. Always having to be doing something sexual even if they just puked their guts out. Why can’t they just lay there and doze off or pass out too and leave people alone.
I feel very ambivalent. I think we're on a VERY slippery slope when we make men criminally responsible for bad decisions women make. When one of the partners in a sex act passes out because he/she has knowingly gotten him/herself drunk, the other partner in the sex act should not suddenly become a felon. And that's what happened here, in my opinion.
Men also make horrible decisions they greatly regret when they are drunk. This is such a common story. A man goes into a strip bar (or a hotel bar, on a business trip), gets completely loaded and then later greatly regrets a sex act with a sex worker that he may or may not have had. He has vague memories of a possible sex act, and symptoms of an STD. And now he has to go home to his wife or girlfriend and he doesn't know what to do - tell her, or don't tell her? And in that case, no one - no one - has any empathy for the man's position although it's the exact same position, in mirror reverse, of this woman's position. Minus, of course, the two bicyclists riding by and witnessing what happened and rescuing her in the most humiliating position she's maybe ever been in.
In my opinion, what happened to her was a "teachable moment" as they say, and not a crime on anyone's part. She passed out during a sex act and he didn't notice. It was not a shining hour for either of them, how terribly vulgar, but we have decided to infanticize women and decide they can't consent to getting themselves drunk and consent to drunk sex.
This is pretty much by opinion.
Actual rape which is done by force is horrific, but I never got the impression that's what this case was.
It sounded like a couple of drunk people with one not giving enough affirmative consent to satisfy the letter of the law.
Did he have consent? You seem to be missing that part. A passed out person can not consent. Even if a person consents then passes out the there is not continued consent. Being drunk is not consent, being passed out is not consent. Being drunk does not excuse you from breaking the law.
I haven't missed anything. I am well acquainted with the legal definition of consent. He said he had consent. He said if he had known she was passed out he would have called for help. Whether you believe that or not doesn't change the fact that law ALSO says he must be aware she passed out in order for it to be a crime. Can you tell us when she passed out and if/when he knew?
Yes this is a good point. Women generally lay there incapacitated or completely passed out. A guy it seems no matter how drunk never passes up an opportunity to try and penetrate anything that happens to be next to him even if it’s a potted plant. Always having to be doing something sexual even if they just puked their guts out. Why can’t they just lay there and doze off or pass out too and leave people alone.
Has this been your experience? If so, it's just your experience.
This case was really shocking. The court was all about HIM, how this would affect HIS future, that he shouldn't be punished in such a way as to harm HIS future too much.
The judge was drummed off the bench, thank goodness. This is one reason it's so important to have diversity at every level of government. It was clear this the former college athlete judge identified with the criminal (a college athlete), and was all about protecting the criminal, not seeking justice or protecting the victim's rights. More women judges are needed. More minority judges are needed.
Just because a judge is a woman doesn't mean she's going to look out for female victims. Same for minority judges. My rapist was black and part of the reason he got away with it, other than being a government employee, was that he is black. Instead, people insisted I was complaining about it because I am a racist and that I was "lucky to have him." I had been a virgin and still a child when my future was stolen from me.
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