Why is BBQ so overpriced in DFW? (Houston, Dallas: fit in, 2013)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It’s like that everywhere. I recommend going to the least known BBQ spots. The food may just be better and it’ll be cheaper.
I also like the mom & pop places but I've eaten at quite a few that sadly didn't have very good BBQ. Maybe they had one type of meat that was excellent but everything else wasn't great.
The chain places or nouveau Austin places usually have good meat across the board whether it's sausage, beef, or pork.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilsn3r
The bold is the key. That's what it is. The rest of your posts before and after are disingenuous. For example your post 31: "When I made the thread, I was mostly referring to the gourmet/nouveau Austin places because the restaurant has a very "commercial" feel. I guess it's just my NC roots, but BBQ places aren't supposed to be fancy inside."
--Well, the title of this thread you made is about DFW BBQ, not Austin. There is no Austin in DFW. Your first post only mentioned DFW and nearby, nothing about Austin. You are full of it with your changing goalposts. Second, because one person (a Jenna R at that) wrote that pork is not bbq, you attribute it to an entire state? Again, so full it. But I can play that too:
There you have it, everyone from NC thinks TX bbq is the best. It's the gospel so now you clearly agree that all bbq in TX is best!
Third, pricing - it's been demonstrated clearly by lz you have no clue about business costs and pricing, economy, supply and demand, etc. Then you try to compare prices between different places like a gas station bbq joint in NC to Pecan Lodge? I can do that too. Pecan Lodge brisket 1lb is $33, Noble Smoke in Charlotte is $38. Pork Ribs 1lb from PL is $24, and from NS it is $28. Explain - in detail like lz does - the price difference and how you can make the disingenuous claim that NC bbq is cheaper.
How about understanding the differences in bbq from all over the US and world, and enjoying it for what it is; instead of making up bs claims. Or just stick with your expertise on fish.
Yet another rude and condescending response. Why? I didn't start this post to upset anyone and certainly didn't expect any condescending responses. For some reason people in TX get a little touchy about BBQ, so I suppose that's why. I was just wondering why a BBQ meal in Texas for one person often costs $25/person which is similar to what you can get a good steak dinner for. Maybe it's just my NC upbringing, but BBQ is supposed to be cheap food that can feed a lot of people. I remember having "pig pickins" growing up where an entire hog was cooked over a large charcoal smoker and could feed a wedding party or a family reunion.
I used the term "Nouveau Austin" because that's the term that another poster used to describe "commercial" or "corporate" feeling upscale or "bougie" BBQ places that are not just in DFW but all over Texas. They charge more than the mom & pop places because the interior of the restaurant looks nicer but often the food quality isn't any better. There are far more "bougie" BBQ restaurants in Texas than in other states I've been to.
You mentioned Noble Smoke. I've never been there but it's rather atypical for a BBQ restaurant in NC. I guess they charge a premium for brisket because it's not a normal thing to eat in NC and the price for beef is higher there. Beef isn't something common to eat in NC. Charlotte has a lot of transplants from other states, so maybe they are catering to that crowd?
Anywho, I think I have the answer to my question. BBQ in Texas often costs more than in other states because of the following:
Beef costs more than pork
There are more "bougie" or "nouveau Austin" BBQ restaurants in TX and those places have higher rent cost and overhead and need to charge more for food than a shack on the side of a rural county highway or a food truck.
People in TX, especially in the bigger cities are willing to pay more for BBQ, so that's why there are more upscale BBQ places here than in other states.
Last edited by lepoisson; 01-31-2022 at 03:26 PM..
German lineage, especially in Central Texas - though now it's pretty filtered and buried. I actually think sausage is where DFW bbq places show their personality (or lack of).
It’s still very prevalent in Central TX, where the bulk of the Czech population was. And yes, almost every solid BBQ place should have their own housemade sausage - or at the very least, specially made for them and smoked in house. Hell, even Plano has a German butcher shop that 25% of their shelf space is dedicated to sausage.
Bangers in Austin does a ton of custom links as well that are phenomenal.
Pork links and pork ribs are definitely a part of the TX BBQ culture. Pulled pork? Not so much - it’s harder to sell, takes up a ton of grill space when cooking, and does best when it’s run at a lower temp than brisket. Plus, it’s just mush with a bun.
When I first moved to Arlington to go to UTA back in the 70's there was a BBQ place right by campus on Cooper St. run by this great old man who just happened to be Black. Cooked some of the best BBQ in Texas.
Food costs are certainly the main cause of BBQ prices going up, but it got out of hand way before the covid pandemic.
Every time a certain food gets popular and "trendy", the prices shoot up. Remember when tamales were cheap?
Look at what happened with fajitas. The butcher used to throw away fajita meat...it was worthless. Now they cost as much as a good ribeye.
Even the brisket section was dirt cheap, because no one figured out how to cook it, so it didn't taste like leather. Brisket caught on during the cattle drives in the 1800's. The chuckwagon would be ahead of the cattle drive, constantly slow cooking this dirt-cheap cut of meat.
I used to smoke briskets all the time when they were maybe $20 for a good-sized brisket. Now they are over $50 for the same thing.
Tamales were a common meal in South Texas many years ago...because they were cheap to make. Now that they have gotten "trendy", 12-15 bucks a dozen are common.
Food costs are certainly the main cause of BBQ prices going up, but it got out of hand way before the covid pandemic.
Every time a certain food gets popular and "trendy", the prices shoot up. Remember when tamales were cheap?
Look at what happened with fajitas. The butcher used to throw away fajita meat...it was worthless. Now they cost as much as a good ribeye.
Even the brisket section was dirt cheap, because no one figured out how to cook it, so it didn't taste like leather. Brisket caught on during the cattle drives in the 1800's. The chuckwagon would be ahead of the cattle drive, constantly slow cooking this dirt-cheap cut of meat.
I used to smoke briskets all the time when they were maybe $20 for a good-sized brisket. Now they are over $50 for the same thing.
Tamales were a common meal in South Texas many years ago...because they were cheap to make. Now that they have gotten "trendy", 12-15 bucks a dozen are common.
Dammit now I'm hungry.
I remember when beer used to be cheap. Now there's a brewery on every corner (and some of them do BBQ also) and they charge like $15 for a 4 pack of beer. It's getting to the point where it's cheaper to buy bourbon than beer.
There's an upscale tamale place in Chicago that charges $5 per tamale. My mouth about dropped to the floor when they told me the price.
Tacos are another thing that have skyrocketed in price because they got trendy and popular. In Mexico, tacos cost no more than $1.25 and are designed to be cheap street food that you eat on the go. But some places in the US do "bougie" gringo tacos and charge $5. The ingredient quality is certainly better, but tacos aren't supposed to cost $5.
This is not other states and traditional old time Texans only eat Beef Brisket as their BBQ. Go to the old time Hill Country / Small country type places and you'll never find pork.
Chicken, Bologna, Sausages is all traditional Texas BBQ just not pulled pork.
More bull.
Many internet articles and books about the history of bbq in Texas shows pork bbq was common in Texas prior to TX becoming independent from MX and prior to joining the US. Pulled pork bbq was traditionally cooked by slaves as the "old time Texan" white slave owners gave the rougher/tougher parts of a pig to their slaves.
From "Eats: A Folk History of Texas Foods", Haitian slaves in the Carolinas introduced the concept of “barbecuing” to plantation owners. The exotic and tasty tradition of roasting a whole hog in a pit extended across the South and to Texas, with African American families holding family barbecue gatherings and eventually incorporating the custom into Juneteenth celebrations.
Blacks BBQ, Southside, and Kreuz' are some of the oldest in TX and probably the oldest in Central TX, and all have pork bbq products on their menu. From Kreuz: In 1875, Jesse Swearingen opened the first meat market in Lockhart, Texas — selling barbecued pork and beef. In 1900, Charles Kreuz Sr. purchased the store from Swearingen and renamed it Kreuz Market.
Further in history, Native Americans were already bbq'ing prior to the arrival of the white man.
"The earliest Texans to roast meat were likely the Caddo, who cooked venison and other game over an open fire thousands of years ago. In the 1600s, Spanish shepherds reportedly spit-roasted lamb and goat al pastor (“shepherd style”) on the plains of South Texas." https://www.thc.texas.gov/TexasBBQ
Verison, lamb, and goat are not beef brisket. The earliest Texans didn't do beef brisket bbq.
I also like the mom & pop places but I've eaten at quite a few that sadly didn't have very good BBQ. Maybe they had one type of meat that was excellent but everything else wasn't great.
The chain places or nouveau Austin places usually have good meat across the board whether it's sausage, beef, or pork.
Yet another rude and condescending response. Why? I didn't start this post to upset anyone and certainly didn't expect any condescending responses. For some reason people in TX get a little touchy about BBQ, so I suppose that's why. I was just wondering why a BBQ meal in Texas for one person often costs $25/person which is similar to what you can get a good steak dinner for. Maybe it's just my NC upbringing, but BBQ is supposed to be cheap food that can feed a lot of people. I remember having "pig pickins" growing up where an entire hog was cooked over a large charcoal smoker and could feed a wedding party or a family reunion.
--snip--
You mentioned Noble Smoke. I've never been there but it's rather atypical for a BBQ restaurant in NC. I guess they charge a premium for brisket because it's not a normal thing to eat in NC and the price for beef is higher there. Beef isn't something common to eat in NC. Charlotte has a lot of transplants from other states, so maybe they are catering to that crowd?
--snip--[/list]
Cause you're still full of it saying stuff like "I'm originally from NC and BBQ out there is never corporate."
There are corporate BBQ. And you compare prices on a disingenuous basis. Compare places like Noble Smoke, Midwood, City, Smoke Pit to Pecan Lodge and similar places, don't compare a little no name roadside bbq joint to Pecan Lodge. You did that deliberately. So why are the 2-3 combo plates to those highly rated NC bbq joints $20-$28/person? (which is similar to prices at similar bbq joints in TX) Why aren't they all $8? Why are those places corporate if there is no such thing as a corporate bbq joint in NC as you stated as a fact?
I have no loyalty to TX bbq, and I'm not a native TX and our retirement won't be in TX. I enjoy trying different food from different states and different countries and judge it on its own merits. I'm also smart enough to not compare the price of steak from Sizzler to the price of steak from Al Biernet's.
I think the whole "Austin" BBQ thing has people thrown off. Texas has a few distinct lines, with the grandaddies being City Market/Kreuz/Southside/Blacks, with Franklin's taking it to the global level (albeit starting as a trailer and gradually moving to a brick & mortar.)
If you break it down to "tiers", for lack of a better term, you'd have something like:
Craft BBQ: Franklin's, Pecan, LA BBQ, Stiles Switch - basically the TM50 list for the most part. They're going to offer the staples and also have a ton of specials with experimental combos, sandwiches (if you ever get a chance, try Stile's Pitmaster Cuban - super creative, not cheap at all but damn good), etc. Almost always, a one-shop place. Yes, they're expensive - so is Papa's steakhouse compared to Saltgrass. Primarily for the quality, somewhat for the experience.
Solid Joints: Cattleack, Hard 8, Ten50, Black's, Snow's, (putting City Market here too as they've just gone downhill sadly) Terry Black's, etc. Maybe 1-2 locations, usually family run. There's quite a few more of these spots. Usually about 90% of the cost of the Craft tier.
Serviceable in a pinch: Rudy's, and a few like this. Quick, reliable, fairly consistent, longer hours. Usually a regional chain. approx 85% of the cost of Craft tier.
Dogfood: Dickey's, Spring Creek, Bill Miller et al. Cheapest meat that's usually par cooked offsite and brought in to hold in steamers. You'll find you pulled mush here, chopped beef sandwiches, store bought tortillas and wonder bread. Here you'll get your $8 sandwich with some velveeta and mac side that tastes like it was pulled out of a russian prison. But it's cheap! Often a franchise, and that's where the companies actually make their money, everything else is the franchisee holding on by a thread with minimum wage employees and no care for anything approaching quality.
The bottom line is all of those are going to be facing the same price pressures that everyone else does. Business is run by supply/demand. If there's no demand for a product, prices are cheap (fajita meat, brisket, etc) When demand rises, so do prices of the raw product to create the finished goods. This is where so many bumbling snooks try to claim "oh, now that it's trendy the prices go up" - no. Now that my prices went from $2.89/lb to $4.99/lb the price went up. I'm not the one growing the dang cow. This is standard amongst every. single. damn. commodity. It is literally Business 101.
If you want cheap, expect cheap and go to a cheap place. Don't go to a place that values quality and expect them to serve quality product at dogfood prices.
I also like the mom & pop places but I've eaten at quite a few that sadly didn't have very good BBQ. Maybe they had one type of meat that was excellent but everything else wasn't great.
The chain places or nouveau Austin places usually have good meat across the board whether it's sausage, beef, or pork.
Yet another rude and condescending response. Why? I didn't start this post to upset anyone and certainly didn't expect any condescending responses. For some reason people in TX get a little touchy about BBQ, so I suppose that's why. I was just wondering why a BBQ meal in Texas for one person often costs $25/person which is similar to what you can get a good steak dinner for. Maybe it's just my NC upbringing, but BBQ is supposed to be cheap food that can feed a lot of people. I remember having "pig pickins" growing up where an entire hog was cooked over a large charcoal smoker and could feed a wedding party or a family reunion.
I used the term "Nouveau Austin" because that's the term that another poster used to describe "commercial" or "corporate" feeling upscale or "bougie" BBQ places that are not just in DFW but all over Texas. They charge more than the mom & pop places because the interior of the restaurant looks nicer but often the food quality isn't any better. There are far more "bougie" BBQ restaurants in Texas than in other states I've been to.
You mentioned Noble Smoke. I've never been there but it's rather atypical for a BBQ restaurant in NC. I guess they charge a premium for brisket because it's not a normal thing to eat in NC and the price for beef is higher there. Beef isn't something common to eat in NC. Charlotte has a lot of transplants from other states, so maybe they are catering to that crowd?
Anywho, I think I have the answer to my question. BBQ in Texas often costs more than in other states because of the following:
Beef costs more than pork
There are more "bougie" or "nouveau Austin" BBQ restaurants in TX and those places have higher rent cost and overhead and need to charge more for food than a shack on the side of a rural county highway or a food truck.
People in TX, especially in the bigger cities are willing to pay more for BBQ, so that's why there are more upscale BBQ places here than in other states.
To shift a bit - where do you get a good steak dinner for $25?
If you break it down to "tiers", for lack of a better term, you'd have something like:
Craft BBQ: Franklin's, Pecan, LA BBQ, Stiles Switch - basically the TM50 list for the most part. They're going to offer the staples and also have a ton of specials with experimental combos, sandwiches (if you ever get a chance, try Stile's Pitmaster Cuban - super creative, not cheap at all but damn good), etc. Almost always, a one-shop place. Yes, they're expensive - so is Papa's steakhouse compared to Saltgrass. Primarily for the quality, somewhat for the experience.
Solid Joints: Cattleack, Hard 8, Ten50, Black's, Snow's, (putting City Market here too as they've just gone downhill sadly) Terry Black's, etc. Maybe 1-2 locations, usually family run. There's quite a few more of these spots. Usually about 90% of the cost of the Craft tier.
Serviceable in a pinch: Rudy's, and a few like this. Quick, reliable, fairly consistent, longer hours. Usually a regional chain. approx 85% of the cost of Craft tier.
Dogfood: Dickey's, Spring Creek, Bill Miller et al. Cheapest meat that's usually par cooked offsite and brought in to hold in steamers. You'll find you pulled mush here, chopped beef sandwiches, store bought ty make their money, everything else is the franchisee holding on by a thread with minimum wage employees and no care for anything approaching quality.
Hard Eight is really good. I prefer Hard Eight over Pecan.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
