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Sadly you are misguided and therefore wrong.
I had good friends who rented to section 8 tenants exclusively.
There were no college grads in this population.
No classy poor people.
in my experience class does equal money.
Here is why
To earn money is to have an idea of its value.
With that recognition of value comes respect.
respect for self. respect for others who have achieved some results.
with respect for self and others comes class.
On the flip side
Handouts only teach the value of need.
Handouts are given to those who can express their need the best.
The whiners and complainers go to the front of the dole line.
The pushy and insistent among them go to the very front.
And there is nothing classy about someone who has learned to get through life by excelling at being whiny, complaining, pushy, and insistent.
no way. the population is different than 20years ago. first off, to land a good job at a ford company plant you didnt need a b.a. and living and making enough was fine back then, now everyone wants rims. secondly, these people who lost jobs after the companies went under arent bad people, they are hard working people who cannot compete with pencil pushes in education, robots do.the work they used to do. also the market is so inflated with college.grads, experiance walks the walk now. so now that these industrial heroes have nowhere to go they depends on low income housing and their asbestos, lead lungs, or whatever illness they caught building country, ssi checks to pay their.section 8 homes. just because you never met a good one, doesnt mean you actually got to know them.
no way. the population is different than 20years ago. first off, to land a good job at a ford company plant you didnt need a b.a. and living and making enough was fine back then, now everyone wants rims. secondly, these people who lost jobs after the companies went under arent bad people, they are hard working people who cannot compete with pencil pushes in education, robots do.the work they used to do. also the market is so inflated with college.grads, experiance walks the walk now. so now that these industrial heroes have nowhere to go they depends on low income housing and their asbestos, lead lungs, or whatever illness they caught building country, ssi checks to pay their.section 8 homes. just because you never met a good one, doesnt mean you actually got to know them.
Hmmmm
I am confused by your reply.
Not sure why everybody wants rims.
Nor am I clear on who qualifies as an industrial hero.
You seam to be in favor of section-8?
and angry at asbestos and SSI?
Anyway
I don't find any coherent argument about how section-8 can positively influence a neighborhood in your post.
The title of this thread Is Section-8 killing neighborhoods.
The answer is most definitely Yes.
Another poster claimed that Section-8 recipients were the classy poor and college grads who couldn't find work.
This is also not the case.
First off anybody with the long term vision and discipline of deferred gratification to complete a college degree will not be applying for Section-8 housing.
Section-8 is a lifestyle.
It is long term assistance.
It is an incentive killer.
you show me a Section-8 recipient.
and with very few exceptions I will show you somebody who
Has a nice car.
nice furniture.
High credit card debt.
and no incentive to get a better paying job that might disqualify them from section-8.
Further more Section-8 is a perversion of the marketplace
inflating rents in the whole neighborhood making it extremely difficult for non-section-8 recipients to afford housing.
When Section-8 gets a foothold it destroys property values and quality of life in the neighborhood.
I have to say that been a female minority myself I absolutely HATE stereotypes. However, I have a friend that have own two apartment buildings in Detroit for the past 10 years. Most of the units receive section 8 subsidies and he has yet to meet someone from those units that are college educated or hold and actual college degree. I'm sure they might exist, but lets not lie to ourselves, most people that receive these subsidies are people that are able to work but they are so used to handouts that they don't have the motivation and this just becomes their lifestyle.
Just like someone above mentioned, these subsidies artificially inflates rents make in it harder for normal people with lower incomes to afford rents. Most landlords, at least in the Detroit area, are changing whatever the amount is approved and are not bothering with charging the difference. If the section 8 rent will come no matter what why bother with charging the difference to people that are unable to pay anyway because they have unreliable jobs or no jobs at all. Take my friend for example. He also own single family homes in Detroit. He is currently interviewing people for a house he has available and is looking to occupy right now. The house is very small, but it has 3 tiny bedrooms. He talked to a single lady with no kids and a single lady with a couple of kids. Both are section 8 recipients. The single lady is approved for X, the single mom with the couple of kids is approved for 1.55 times X. With any of the two my friend is still going to get a decent profit each month but guess who is he going to choose?
Section 8 is like a plague that raises rents and deteriorate property values and the quality of the neighborhood. Once it get a hold of an area is turns it around because nobody in that area wants to be homeowners, most people that comes in come as renters, but because rents are so high they need subsidies. Its like a monster that feeds it self.
The OP mentioned his community in Waterford, but this is happening in other townships too. In Waterford it may feel more dramatic because you could have waterfront homes worth 7 or 800,000 on the same street as houses that are worth say 150k. This is very normal in that area. I lived there from 1998 to 2005 and in a 0.5 mile radius from my house I had million dollar waterfront homes and houses that were already, even back then, renting to section 8 recipients. Since then, I have seen the houses around those two houses deteriorate and are now occupied with renters too (don't know if they are section 8 too though). So there has been a deterioration in the area. The real estate market collapse is not an excuse to let your house deteriorate. My neighborhood has seen property values plummet just like every where else, but everybody keep their homes beautiful and their yards clean because they are all homeowners.
Section 8 subsidies should be limited only to the elderly,( that are too old to work) and people with severe disabilities ( and the people that cares for them), that's it. In college I was so broke I rented a room. I lived with an old lady that rented rooms to other 4 girls, I had to share my room with 2 other girls. Six in total in a small 3 bedroom apartment and only one tiny bathroom (we shared everything with the old lady, even the bathroom). Did this for 4 years and somehow I survived. I learned how to be considerate and respectful toward others and very importantly to take care of the few thing I had and to clean after myself. People that have low income and can't afford full rents should do this more often, it is very affordable.
I have heard the argument that the kids of poor single moms need a safe place to live and that's true. But how safe can the place be if the mom is always bringing home a "boyfriend" and exposing her children to what is to them strange men that do not care for them. The oversight of Section 8 recipients is very poor and this things happen all the time. Why (instead of giving section 8) can't single moms get together with other single moms and split costs, nothing wrong with sharing your home, after all this is suppose to be "temporary" while you get back on your feet. When my mom was a child she shared her home with her cousins and two aunts, 10 kids on a single family home. They all look for each other, and they all grew up fine to be productive members of society.
I understand there might be cases where a woman and her children might get abandoned by their spouse, maybe she stayed at home with the kids and never had a job outside of the home and now that the spouse is gone she is left with nothing. I see nothing wrong with giving her a temporary help tied to her finishing a degree or some type of training, but the majority of single moms receiving section 8 subsidies are not in this category. Very common for them to have never been married and have kids with different fathers so like I said before this is just their lifestyle.
So yes, section 8 destroys neighborhoods. The problem is not destroying just property values, as we all have seen in MI that is relative, it destroys and deforms the social fabric of a community.
I have to say that been a female minority myself I absolutely HATE stereotypes. However, I have a friend that have own two apartment buildings in Detroit for the past 10 years. Most of the units receive section 8 subsidies and he has yet to meet someone from those units that are college educated or hold and actual college degree. I'm sure they might exist, but lets not lie to ourselves, most people that receive these subsidies are people that are able to work but they are so used to handouts that they don't have the motivation and this just becomes their lifestyle.
Just like someone above mentioned, these subsidies artificially inflates rents make in it harder for normal people with lower incomes to afford rents. Most landlords, at least in the Detroit area, are changing whatever the amount is approved and are not bothering with charging the difference. If the section 8 rent will come no matter what why bother with charging the difference to people that are unable to pay anyway because they have unreliable jobs or no jobs at all. Take my friend for example. He also own single family homes in Detroit. He is currently interviewing people for a house he has available and is looking to occupy right now. The house is very small, but it has 3 tiny bedrooms. He talked to a single lady with no kids and a single lady with a couple of kids. Both are section 8 recipients. The single lady is approved for X, the single mom with the couple of kids is approved for 1.55 times X. With any of the two my friend is still going to get a decent profit each month but guess who is he going to choose?
Section 8 is like a plague that raises rents and deteriorate property values and the quality of the neighborhood. Once it get a hold of an area is turns it around because nobody in that area wants to be homeowners, most people that comes in come as renters, but because rents are so high they need subsidies. Its like a monster that feeds it self.
The OP mentioned his community in Waterford, but this is happening in other townships too. In Waterford it may feel more dramatic because you could have waterfront homes worth 7 or 800,000 on the same street as houses that are worth say 150k. This is very normal in that area. I lived there from 1998 to 2005 and in a 0.5 mile radius from my house I had million dollar waterfront homes and houses that were already, even back then, renting to section 8 recipients. Since then, I have seen the houses around those two houses deteriorate and are now occupied with renters too (don't know if they are section 8 too though). So there has been a deterioration in the area. The real estate market collapse is not an excuse to let your house deteriorate. My neighborhood has seen property values plummet just like every where else, but everybody keep their homes beautiful and their yards clean because they are all homeowners.
Section 8 subsidies should be limited only to the elderly,( that are too old to work) and people with severe disabilities ( and the people that cares for them), that's it. In college I was so broke I rented a room. I lived with an old lady that rented rooms to other 4 girls, I had to share my room with 2 other girls. Six in total in a small 3 bedroom apartment and only one tiny bathroom (we shared everything with the old lady, even the bathroom). Did this for 4 years and somehow I survived. I learned how to be considerate and respectful toward others and very importantly to take care of the few thing I had and to clean after myself. People that have low income and can't afford full rents should do this more often, it is very affordable.
I have heard the argument that the kids of poor single moms need a safe place to live and that's true. But how safe can the place be if the mom is always bringing home a "boyfriend" and exposing her children to what is to them strange men that do not care for them. The oversight of Section 8 recipients is very poor and this things happen all the time. Why (instead of giving section 8) can't single moms get together with other single moms and split costs, nothing wrong with sharing your home, after all this is suppose to be "temporary" while you get back on your feet. When my mom was a child she shared her home with her cousins and two aunts, 10 kids on a single family home. They all look for each other, and they all grew up fine to be productive members of society.
I understand there might be cases where a woman and her children might get abandoned by their spouse, maybe she stayed at home with the kids and never had a job outside of the home and now that the spouse is gone she is left with nothing. I see nothing wrong with giving her a temporary help tied to her finishing a degree or some type of training, but the majority of single moms receiving section 8 subsidies are not in this category. Very common for them to have never been married and have kids with different fathers so like I said before this is just their lifestyle.
So yes, section 8 destroys neighborhoods. The problem is not destroying just property values, as we all have seen in MI that is relative, it destroys and deforms the social fabric of a community.
Agreed. Say what you will about FDR's New Deal, at least he made the unemployed work for a transfer payment. We got a lot from the New Deal; all we get now is a bunch of people sitting home waiting for the next check.
Perhaps it's time to consider more government (direct) intervention in creating jobs by establishing more publicly owned enterprises.
The whole idea that privately owned enterprises are better run, and more efficient....is just plain BS.
Now that we've seen how corrupt dog-eat-dog Wall Street capitalism can be, perhaps it's time to experiment with new models of development and job creation ie. gov't funded, publicly owned start-ups.
For me, wealth is not only the sum-total of the wealth produced by the entire country, but also the mean average productivity of its average citizen.
The way we're going, the educated, powerful, wealthy few at the top will be taking home most of the winnings....and the rest will be fighting for the left
overs and scraps...
Perhaps it's time to consider more government (direct) intervention in creating jobs by establishing more publicly owned enterprises.
\
The way we're going, the educated, powerful, wealthy few at the top will be taking home most of the winnings....and the rest will be fighting for the left
overs and scraps...
1. Publicly-owned businesses are for the most part a violation of the American constituition, in theory at least. The Constituition limits federal enterprise to a post office (which, oddly, isn't completely federal anymore) and not much more.
2. Concerning the rich": "You can have anything they want but they'd better not take it from me..." (Guns n' Roses, Welcome to the Jungle)
Well, looking at the permanent unemployment projections, the government will have to intervene and take a much more pro-active position vis-a-vis the unemployed.
If THAT is the future of the US, Detroit's already in the future, and can thus serve as a laboratory for gov't and public-community solutions to the problems of unemployment and social decay.
The "ownership" of gov't sponsored enterprises will not be THE issue.
The wasted lives of the unemployed, and the consequent growing social decay will become THE issue.
This has nothing to do with the thread topic, but since it was brought up:
We already have publicly owned enterprises. They're called "corporations" and they comprise most of the large companies in America.
We also have government funded publicly owned companies. Ever hear of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? ...you know the ones who caused the housing market to explode and collapse?
Government run companies is not the solution (reference: USSR). As long as companies (and organizations in general) are run by humans, you will always have corruption. The question becomes: how can you minimize corruption. Companies that are accountable to their shareholders and customers and fairly regulated by the government are the best solution. Government-run companies run under the guise of "publicly owned" are very inefficient because they know that no matter how poorly they perform, the government will keep them in business.
yes section 8 do rent to people who they think is good.But I say some people not use to anything ,come on give a homeless person a home some don't now to keep it clean.someone like me can't get section 8.Hell I need section 8 I want me a nice home for me and my children. Some people do make it bad for other, black and white. I have seen some nasty white people and nasty black in the neighborhood.
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