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Try the post WWII economic boom. The top fifth grew by 8% in wealth but the bottom fifth grew by 42% or something like that according to this. The 40-Year Slump
Worked quite well.
But the economy has gone global so we need to grow the bottom on a global scale.
Depends on how you do the BI and what the rules are. If everyone gets the same BI, there is no cliff effect.
Right, there are both lazy people and people who are honestly SOL. To deal with the former, eliminate the welfare cliff effect. To deal with the latter, there needs to be some safety net.
Of course if you want an extreme example, I can mention the quadriplegic who genuinely cannot work, but of course there are less obvious cases of "not-at-fault joblessness" resulting from sluggish economic flow.
It does not reduce the crime rate to zero. But it still prevents it from skyrocketing to the levels it otherwise would.
There are actually quadriplegics that work, so that argument won't fly.
If we want to get rid of lazy people, we can address that with regards to welfare now. But we don't. Which is why with a BI, it won't be addressed either. So you will reward both lazy people and those that pretend they aren't, but truly are.
There does need to be a safety net, but it shouldn't apply to people that continue to use their children to gain that net.
I don't recall - have you said where all this money would be coming from?
Try the post WWII economic boom. The top fifth grew by 8% in wealth but the bottom fifth grew by 42% or something like that according to this. The 40-Year Slump
Worked quite well.
But the economy has gone global so we need to grow the bottom on a global scale.
But guess what, the fix for our economic woes is the redistribution of wealth. With wages or social programs or what ever that is what is needed to get our economy going.
That isnt the fix.we need more productive people making good decisions. this is a country of mostly stupid skilless people, who make terrible decision after terrible decision, not the least of which is shooting out kids they can't afford.Handing people money to blow doesn't fix that. Trying to educate them into making better financial and life decisions and teaching them actual skills in trade schools instead of given/lending terrible students 6 figures to major in nonsense is a much better use of tax money.
There are actually quadriplegics that work, so that argument won't fly.
Exception and not the rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
If we want to get rid of lazy people, we can address that with regards to welfare now. But we don't. Which is why with a BI, it won't be addressed either. So you will reward both lazy people and those that pretend they aren't, but truly are.
If everyone gets the BI, there is no welfare cliff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
There does need to be a safety net, but it shouldn't apply to people that continue to use their children to gain that net.
I assume it would be approximately budget neutral if it replaces the current system. Do you have a case for thinking differently? Please do tell.
Regarding kids on welfare, we can do that now. But we don't, because that would punish "the children".
As for assuming it will be budget neutral, I'll take it as you haven't really thought that through. You're the one that has made the case that BI is preferable. It's on you to prove it with facts and numbers, not assumptions.
Top marginal tax rate was 90%. That kept the top from growing. It was well regulated capitalism, not crony capitalism.
RR and his supply side economics just inflated a debt bubble. Crony capitalism.
With the coming robotics revolution there is likely to be a lot of people that just aren't needed to be working. What do you do with them? Let them starve like the Irish were let to starve when the potato crops failed?
A welfare cliff isn't the only thing that keeps those on welfare from working or trying to better themselves.
Give people free food, free housing etc forever and many will just take it and be content without any motivation to improve their life- in large part because that's all they know there is out there.
Regarding kids on welfare, we can do that now. But we don't, because that would punish "the children".
As for assuming it will be budget neutral, I'll take it as you haven't really thought that through. You're the one that has made the case that BI is preferable. It's on you to prove it with facts and numbers, not assumptions.
And that really is the catch 22.
I don't want to encourage people to keep shooting out kids, I hate that if someone makes the same money I make but have 3 kids they pay way less in taxes than I do but get way more from the tax payers but at the same time I don't want to punish kids who didn't ask to be born.
I assume it would be approximately budget neutral if it replaces the current system. Do you have a case for thinking differently? Please do tell.
How could it possibly be budget-neutral? You're talking about handing cash payments to people who currently aren't receiving any safety net benefits. Look at what a single minimum wage person is eligible for today, particularly in an ACA opt-out state. Zilch. That's my whole problem with the perverse public policy since LBJ put in the Great Society programs 50 years ago where the people getting all the juicy safety net benefits are single mothers. If you're poor, your path to the gravy train is to get yourself knocked up. Magically, you qualify for everything.
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