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No you don't give it up. But you also don't get $8k on top of it.
$8k/yr is enough to live on. I'm quite certain of that.
BI should be linked to GDP and tech unemployment rates. I think 15% of GDP is a good start. If computer and robotic capabilities increase as much as expected, few people will be able to earn a wage 50 years from now.
Sure I would. Basic income is for EVERYONE, rich, poor and in between.
$3 trillion is what the government would have to pay out each and every year for just basic income of $10K a year.
And that means you cannot get rid of the welfare programs.
Now add in your regular budget.
And of course we'd all get COL raises every year right ?
Well, that obviously won't work. Basic income would have to replace welfare and be clawed back at high incomes. Otherwise it has to wait for robot labor to avoid bankrupting the country...
The problem in your example is that you want the basic income to be so high that you don't ever need roommates. I don't think that will work. It never has.
Not everyone can have roommates. Many apartments won't let more than two or three people share it without charging extra. They especially don't want young adults sharing apartments because of the damages and the noise complaints. Even if you're renting a 4 bedroom house, the rent then becomes so high that each roommate is paying what is probably the equivalent of a studio apartment anyway. I pointed out in another thread that one of my friends had her mom move in with her into a double wide 2 bedroom trailer. The landlord promptly jacked the rent up because the original rent was only for 1 person living there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff
"Hungry children" caused by lame parents isn't a problem that a BI is intended to solve. We have laws regarding the fitness of people to be parents.
Everyone gets a BI. No qualifying.
If you have the money you can rent a place to live. For people begging on the streets, everyone will know that they squandered their check on booze and drugs and have zero sympathy for them.
Hungry children are something that is better avoided, wouldn't you say? The "laws" we have for this type of problem are already stretched to the limit. There are over 300,000 children in foster care right now looking for a permanent home. Why add more to the mix if we don't need to?
I seriously doubt in this country we can afford to give everyone a basic income. I just don't see it happening. Especially given the fact that we can't seem to stay out of a war for more than 15 years.
And I really don't think anyone is going to receive a basic income that will allow them to rent an apartment in most places in the country. Not and live where they can get a job as well. If you're going to pay $1500 to $2000 a month for a one bedroom apartment, then for it to cost only half your income, you'd have to be given at least $36,000 to $48,000 a year. Where is that kind of money going to come from?
And not everyone living on the street is a drug user or alcoholic. Many people lost their homes and jobs in 2008, and an equal number lost their savings or retirement pensions through no fault of their own. Walking away from that and saying tough luck isn't what this country is about, although sometimes you'd wonder.
Well, that obviously won't work. Basic income would have to replace welfare and be clawed back at high incomes. Otherwise it has to wait for robot labor to avoid bankrupting the country...
Then you are right back to welfare.
The premise of basic income is that everyone gets it..everyone.
Not everyone can have roommates. Many apartments won't let more than two or three people share it without charging extra. They especially don't want young adults sharing apartments because of the damages and the noise complaints. Even if you're renting a 4 bedroom house, the rent then becomes so high that each roommate is paying what is probably the equivalent of a studio apartment anyway. I pointed out in another thread that one of my friends had her mom move in with her into a double wide 2 bedroom trailer. The landlord promptly jacked the rent up because the original rent was only for 1 person living there.
You apparently don't know how to find good deals on rooms for rent. It gets easier with time and experience. I've moved 9 times in the last 11 years, now it's easy because I know how to mine listings for good deals.
It is NOT anywhere NEAR the cost of a studio, at least in my area (which is HCOL).
No you don't give it up. But you also don't get $8k on top of it.
$8k/yr is enough to live on. I'm quite certain of that.
BI should be linked to GDP and tech unemployment rates. I think 15% of GDP is a good start. If computer and robotic capabilities increase as much as expected, few people will be able to earn a wage 50 years from now.
If your rent is $1000/month, then rent alone would be $12,000/yr. A house at $100,000 with interest at 6% is going to make a payment somewhere between $700 and $1200/mo, if insurance and taxes are added to it, depending on the area. Food for one person is roughly $150/mo, give or take. Utilities could be from $50 to $200 a month. Add in a car if the town you live in has lousy transportation, car maintenance and insurance, clothes, and medical bills. $8000 a year? Hardly.
The premise of basic income is that everyone gets it..everyone.
Regardless of what we call it, we need to get rid of the dumb welfare cliffs. That should be the highest priority of all of this, IMO. And the second highest priority should be to get rid of asset limits and base it only on income (otherwise we forbid saving and make it unduly difficult to break out of poverty).
You apparently don't know how to find good deals on rooms for rent. It gets easier with time and experience. I've moved 9 times in the last 11 years, now it's easy because I know how to mine listings for good deals.
It is NOT anywhere NEAR the cost of a studio, at least in my area (which is HCOL).
I'm not saying it's impossible to find rooms to rent. And in your area if you can do it, fine. But where I live it's quite a bit more difficult. It's the same with finding a low cost place to live. I'm sure there's many of those out there, too. But you still have to live in an area where you can find and reasonably commute to a job. And that's another factor. Most houses where you could squeeze in 4 or more people have parking for two cars. Very few cities have good enough transportation for people to not have to own a car. So now we're talking about wall to wall cars in a neighborhood. And of course, seeing this, a lot of people will say that rentals bring down the property values.
Besides, many people have a family and kids. There simply may be no more room to bring in a roommate.
Do YOU want to live next door to a house with 10 people in it? Or live under the 2 bedroom apartment with 8 people in it?
The premise of basic income is that everyone gets it..everyone.
Actually, I think we're right back to minimum wage. At one time, you could live on minimum wage and still be able to support a family. And that's what will happen with a basic income. For the first 5 or so years, people will be able to live and save on it. But it will only get raised incrementally and in about 30 years, it won't be worth a jack spit.
I'm not saying it's impossible to find rooms to rent. And in your area if you can do it, fine. But where I live it's quite a bit more difficult. It's the same with finding a low cost place to live. I'm sure there's many of those out there, too. But you still have to live in an area where you can find and reasonably commute to a job. And that's another factor. Most houses where you could squeeze in 4 or more people have parking for two cars. Very few cities have good enough transportation for people to not have to own a car. So now we're talking about wall to wall cars in a neighborhood. And of course, seeing this, a lot of people will say that rentals bring down the property values.
Besides, many people have a family and kids. There simply may be no more room to bring in a roommate.
Do YOU want to live next door to a house with 10 people in it? Or live under the 2 bedroom apartment with 8 people in it?
It's not the number of people in the house, it's how loud they yell (or turn up the music with too much bass) when I'm trying to catch some sleep.
The other thing I don't like is people around the house/apt smoking cigarettes. But for some reason poor people who smoke somehow find the money to smoke no matter how low their income gets. I'd be in favor of a law denying basic income to smokers (with a temporary exemption allowed for participation in rehab/cessation programs)...
Last edited by ncole1; 03-09-2016 at 07:42 PM..
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