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Old 03-09-2016, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,598,326 times
Reputation: 4817

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Huh? You're just making stuff up. That's not what happened with 1%ers in 1960. They used shelters, exclusions, and deductions to avoid taxes. They were spending the money, not investing it. Bring your wife on that "business trip" to Europe? Tax deduction. The car? The company gave you one to drive and you weren't taxed on it. Go out to dinner? Tax deduction. Swimming pool in the back yard? Medical tax deduction.
What am I making up? You are only looking at a small segment. A pittance in the grand scheme, and most of these deductions are still being used.

The greater portion of business profits went into growing the business. Building income wasn't easy, but building capital was.

BTW it's 0.1%, not 1%. Most of the 1% are poor slobs who work for a living.
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Old 03-09-2016, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Huh? You're just making stuff up. That's not what happened with 1%ers in 1960. They used shelters, exclusions, and deductions to avoid taxes. They were spending the money, not investing it. Bring your wife on that "business trip" to Europe? Tax deduction. The car? The company gave you one to drive and you weren't taxed on it. Go out to dinner? Tax deduction. Swimming pool in the back yard? Medical tax deduction.
All interest you paid was dollar for dollar deductible.

The loopholes benefited everyone as well, not just that 1%.
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Old 03-09-2016, 05:27 PM
 
18,549 posts, read 15,593,615 times
Reputation: 16235
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
Incentive to work? I thought the whole reason basic income was being discussed was because of the looming high unemployment due to robots and improved technology.

Where does all the money come from to pay all US citizens a basic income?

It's not budget neutral, not even close.
It's one of the reasons, I guess. I was thinking the OP of this particular thread was imagining it being implemented when there is still a lot of human labor.

Who knows what tax revenue will be once the robots take over?
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Old 03-09-2016, 05:29 PM
 
18,549 posts, read 15,593,615 times
Reputation: 16235
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Nope. Estimates say it will cost $3 trillion a year..triple what current welfare costs.
remember you are giving money to everybody, not just the poor.
$3 trillion? Gross cost, or net?
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Old 03-09-2016, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
$3 trillion? Gross cost, or net?
$3 trillion is what the government would have to pay out each and every year for just basic income of $10K a year.
And that means you cannot get rid of the welfare programs.

Now add in your regular budget.

And of course we'd all get COL raises every year right ?
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Old 03-09-2016, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,598,326 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
$3 trillion? Gross cost, or net?
People pull all sorts of numbers out of a dark place.

$8k/yr would be $2.7T gross. 15% of GDP. After you remove welfare costs and SS payments, maybe 5% of GDP net.
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Old 03-09-2016, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
People pull all sorts of numbers out of a dark place.

$8k/yr would be $2.7T gross. 15% of GDP. After you remove welfare costs and SS payments, maybe 5% of GDP net.
322 million @ 10K each comes to $3.22 trillion.

I did not pull any numbers out of a hat.

And with either $8K or $10K you could not get rid of welfare programs.

My SS payment at 70 would be $2700/month. I'm going to give that up and get $600/month instead ? No thanks.
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Old 03-09-2016, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,598,326 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
$3 trillion is what the government would have to pay out each and every year for just basic income of $10K a year.
And that means you cannot get rid of the welfare programs.
What you smokin?! $8k/yr is plenty. People are working 40 hrs a week for <$15k.

Why do you think you can't get rid of welfare programs?
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Old 03-09-2016, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,598,326 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
My SS payment at 70 would be $2700/month. I'm going to give that up and get $600/month instead ? No thanks.
No you don't give it up. But you also don't get $8k on top of it.

$8k/yr is enough to live on. I'm quite certain of that.

BI should be linked to GDP and tech unemployment rates. I think 15% of GDP is a good start. If computer and robotic capabilities increase as much as expected, few people will be able to earn a wage 50 years from now.
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Old 03-09-2016, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
What you smokin?! $8k/yr is plenty. People are working 40 hrs a week for <$15k.

Why do you think you can't get rid of welfare programs?
$8K a year comes to $666/month.

What is the cost of welfare for people per month ?
Some are getting $1000 housing credit for rent and I didn't even touch on the other programs.
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