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I think a National Recommended Reading List would be a way to help 'Gifted Children' regardless of who hates them.
I just find it odd that teachers haven't promoted this already. I know there are lots of reading lists but how many explain why the works should be in the list?
I don't think I asked you to define "lots of schools."
You didn't, and I didn't say you did.
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You stated:
I see you live in Pennsylvania. Can you name a PA school that has dropped football because it's too expensive?
Yes, there are also "lots of schools" that are cancelling football due to lack of players. Right now there are 569 schools scheduled to play football this fall. That is the same number as in the past two years. Fairfield High School in Adams County may not play a varsity schedule due to a lack of players.
I can't name any school in PA that has dropped football because it's too expensive. I can only name one Catholic school founded in 1967 that never started a program because it was too expensive, even though the original blueprints for the school feature a football field. In fact it's probably best that we didn't raise the money because that was just before the 2008-09 crash and it would have been a disaster.
So I'll have to backtrack on my earlier statement. I must have heard or read a report somewhere along the way that gave me the impression of schools cutting back on sports programs, including football, due to costs, and I can't locate anything online to back that up.
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BTW, do high schools in your area compete in spelling bees? They must since you keep bringing them up in this thread.
Yes, in fact there is a county-wide spelling bee every year at both the middle school and high school levels. And of course you know about the annual National Spelling Bee that gets wide coverage on ESPN and elsewhere. I guess Spelling Bees are not a thing in all areas, but they're a thing here and it makes the local cable TV news and the newspaper.
I tried to find out what the athletic fees are for Oak Ridge HS and apparently wasn't putting in the right words. I did find that a season sports pass for all competitions except playoffs and post season tournament is $55, so my educated guess is not a lot of money is being made off ticket sales for any sport. https://oakridgeathletics.com/student-athletic-pass/
Correct. No one is making a big profit off student sports, other than perhaps the suppliers. While I don't have the specific numbers for football, overall it breaks even or comes out a little bit ahead. But I do know the specifics of the sports my kids played and all were heavily dependent on parent fees and fund raising because ticket sales didn't even come close to covering the cost.
Also you're looking at the wrong high school. I don't want to give away any more about my location to protect my ability to speak freely.
Correct. No one is making a big profit off student sports, other than perhaps the suppliers. While I don't have the specific numbers for football, overall it breaks even or comes out a little bit ahead. But I do know the specifics of the sports my kids played and all were heavily dependent on parent fees and fund raising because ticket sales didn't even come close to covering the cost.
Also you're looking at the wrong high school. I don't want to give away any more about my location to protect my ability to speak freely.
I seriously doubt that football players don't have to pay a fee to be on a team if all the other athletes do. Ticket sales are not meant to pay for the sport. That doesn't even happen in the NFL!
My kids' school, which I have posted links to, charges every sports participant $185 per season, with a family limit of $405. The concessions are sold by the Booster Club. They are an all-school group and help out all the sports and activities. https://mkt.com/store/MonarchBoosterClub
My kids did gymnastics and diving, they didn't even charge to get into the events.
Correct. No one is making a big profit off student sports, other than perhaps the suppliers. While I don't have the specific numbers for football, overall it breaks even or comes out a little bit ahead. But I do know the specifics of the sports my kids played and all were heavily dependent on parent fees and fund raising because ticket sales didn't even come close to covering the cost.
I think I've already stated this, but I doubt many high schools break even on sports including football. I'm positive my local school district doesn't. My district has a pay to play fee, which is significantly lower than Katarina's district in Colorado. It is:
$20 per student per season, regardless of the number of activities the student participates in that season.
$50 per student for all activities for the school year, must be paid with the fall season.
$100 per family for the year, regardless of number of children or activities
The fee is waived for any student who is eligible for free or reduced lunches.
In addition the district charges admission to varsity/JV football, basketball, volleyball, soccer, and wrestling. Adult tickets range from $4 to $6 for adults and $2 for students. Senior citizens can get a pass for free admission. There is no admission fee for junior high athletic events.
The district's budget for athletic operating expenses for the upcoming year is $267,950. This includes items such as officials, transportation, re-conditioning of equipment for football, insurance, land rental, supplies, clinics, and fees. It does not include any salaries or capital expenses such as new football equipment, playing field expenses, etc. Each sport has multiple paid coaches with the head football coach the highest at $11,292.
Some simple arithmetic shows that the district would have to have huge paid attendance numbers to break even.
Most PA schools also have most sports at the junior high/middle school level. I'm aware that some states such as Florida do not have middle school sports.
Note I didn't say making a profit from gate receipts. Of course theres a player fee. Didn't say there wasn't. Breaking even just means the income from all sources is a bit above the outflow. Which means over time they save enough to afford some "extras". And dont need special fund raisers to put on the program. Other programs dont generate sufficient revenue so need either parental to pay part of it in addition to fees or extra fundraising. Funds in - funds out.
Note I didn't say making a profit from gate receipts. Of course theres a player fee. Didn't say there wasn't. Breaking even just means the income from all sources is a bit above the outflow. Which means over time they save enough to afford some "extras". And dont need special fund raisers to put on the program. Other programs dont generate sufficient revenue so need either parental to pay part of it in addition to fees or extra fundraising. Funds in - funds out.
I guess I wasn't very clear.
First, when you state, "Of course theres a player fee," our player fee is new in the past 2-3 years and was controversial. I think we are the only district in the county to have one.
You said, "Breaking even just means the income from all sources is a bit above the outflow." I tried to explain that my district's income from all sources does not come close to covering the outflow or expenses.
Regarding special fundraisers, this is done by each team's booster organization, and the money does not go to the school district. It typically goes to meals for away games. It may also go to cover some expenditure that the district won't agree to fund. Booster organizations have purchased equipment for the fitness center.
Regarding your last sentence, schools in my area must be much different from your area. For other programs, parents do not do pay extra fees or extra fundraising. For all sports, the programs are funded by the district, which gets most of its funding through local property, earned income, and per capita taxes. Secondary sources of revenue are state and federal funding.
Note I didn't say making a profit from gate receipts. Of course theres a player fee. Didn't say there wasn't. Breaking even just means the income from all sources is a bit above the outflow. Which means over time they save enough to afford some "extras". And dont need special fund raisers to put on the program. Other programs dont generate sufficient revenue so need either parental to pay part of it in addition to fees or extra fundraising. Funds in - funds out.
Well, you did say this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
Correct. No one is making a big profit off student sports, other than perhaps the suppliers. While I don't have the specific numbers for football, overall it breaks even or comes out a little bit ahead. But I do know the specifics of the sports my kids played and all were heavily dependent on parent fees and fund raising because ticket sales didn't even come close to covering the cost.
Also you're looking at the wrong high school. I don't want to give away any more about my location to protect my ability to speak freely.
I think you don't have much of an idea of how athletics is funded in middle/high schools. Here is the athletics budget for my district: https://www.bvsd.org/businessservice...%20website.pdf (pp 176-177)
Now this is a big school district, with 10,127 high school students and 7320 middle school students, about 2440 8th graders. Interscholastic athletics starts in 8th grade here. The budget includes 8th-12th grades; 12,567 students (in case you're wondering why the dollar amounts are so large.) Do note that game admissions account for a whopping 4% of the athletic budget, and activity tickets (season passes) account for another huge 2%. Participation fees are 30%, and transfer from general operating fund is 61%. (Balance held over that year was 3%.)
Expenditures: Salaries, 49% plus benefits, 10%. 59% total on personnel. Purchased services (I admit to no idea what this is, maybe officials, stuff like that?), 16%; supplies, 9%; equipment 3%; other, 10%; emergency reserves, 3%.
From 2016-17, game admissions were $137,230 and activity tickets $90,368 out of a total revenues of $3,205,106. The biggest expenditure was personnel at $1,956,609 out of total expenditures of $3,371,110. Total resources, including the beginning fund balance, $3,472,243.
I cannot find a separate football budget. ALL HS sports fund raise. ALL rely on volunteers. At my kids' high school, there is the general booster club for all sports and activities, plus the football team and the band have their own separate organizations as well.
Ticket sales are a token.
villageidiot1, I'm presuming your fees are lower because the per-pupil funding in PA is higher than here in CO. What they don't take from you in taxes, they get from you in fees!
I think you don't have much of an idea of how athletics is funded in middle/high schools. Here is the athletics budget for my district: https://www.bvsd.org/businessservice...%20website.pdf (pp 176-177)
Now this is a big school district, with 10,127 high school students and 7320 middle school students, about 2440 8th graders. Interscholastic athletics starts in 8th grade here. The budget includes 8th-12th grades; 12,567 students (in case you're wondering why the dollar amounts are so large.) Do note that game admissions account for a whopping 4% of the athletic budget, and activity tickets (season passes) account for another huge 2%. Participation fees are 30%, and transfer from general operating fund is 61%. (Balance held over that year was 3%.)
Expenditures: Salaries, 49% plus benefits, 10%. 59% total on personnel. Purchased services (I admit to no idea what this is, maybe officials, stuff like that?), 16%; supplies, 9%; equipment 3%; other, 10%; emergency reserves, 3%.
From 2016-17, game admissions were $137,230 and activity tickets $90,368 out of a total revenues of $3,205,106. The biggest expenditure was personnel at $1,956,609 out of total expenditures of $3,371,110. Total resources, including the beginning fund balance, $3,472,243.
I cannot find a separate football budget. ALL HS sports fund raise. ALL rely on volunteers. At my kids' high school, there is the general booster club for all sports and activities, plus the football team and the band have their own separate organizations as well.
Ticket sales are a token.
villageidiot1, I'm presuming your fees are lower because the per-pupil funding in PA is higher than here in CO. What they don't take from you in taxes, they get from you in fees!
Your school district puts together a nice budget document. Of course, it is a much larger school district than the ones in PA, except for the Philly school district. Your district has a higher enrollment than the Pittsburgh Public Schools (30,648 vs. 24,652).
Pennsylvania is contributing less every year as a percentage of the school budgets. Extracurricular fees are a sensitive subject and the districts that have implemented them have done so reluctantly and with relatively minimal fees, as you saw in my post. This means the burden of funding school districts is mainly on property owners by way of property taxes.
Your school district puts together a nice budget document. Of course, it is a much larger school district than the ones in PA, except for the Philly school district. Your district has a higher enrollment than the Pittsburgh Public Schools (30,648 vs. 24,652).
Pennsylvania is contributing less every year as a percentage of the school budgets. Extracurricular fees are a sensitive subject and the districts that have implemented them have done so reluctantly and with relatively minimal fees, as you saw in my post. This means the burden of funding school districts is mainly on property owners by way of property taxes.
You can use us as an example if you ever need to make a convincing argument. It really doesn't seem to discourage participation, and the free/reduced lunch kids don't have to pay the fees.
School districts in the Denver area are large, usually several to many high schools. There is some economy of scale that way.
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