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No one here has advocated tolerating bullying. I don't know a school that would. Bullying is a separate issue.
Only partially. Yes, bullying crosses all levels. OTOH, there are some populations which are more prone to being the intended goat, and that cannot be reasonably ignored.
I'm glad your daughter has never been bullied. Good on her, seriously. The fact that she hasn't doesn't make it better that other children have.
This is, exactly, why my dd prefers to simply be placed a grade or two up for classes.
And that works to a point. The problem we ran into with my son was that it worked really well to give him the fourth grade math book in second, and the fifth grade math book for the first semester or so of third. But after that...there were no optins available to him on that campus. (There was a middle school close by, but he wasn't allowed to go over there for math, nor would the elementary school borrow books for him-- district policy.) He spent the next year pretty much repeating what he'd done already, until we pulled him out to homeschool.
Only partially. Yes, bullying crosses all levels. OTOH, there are some populations which are more prone to being the intended goat, and that cannot be reasonably ignored.
I'm glad your daughter has never been bullied. Good on her, seriously. The fact that she hasn't doesn't make it better that other children have.
You misunderstand. I don't think it's good that kids have been bullied. I think it's good to learn how to deal with bullying. My daughter isn't bullied because she doesn't care what bullies think. They have no power over her. She has enough self esteem built on accomplishment that she doesn't have to care what anyone else thinks to feel good about herself. She's also one of those people everyone just likes. Everyone wants to be her friend. Even the bullies. Now THAT can be problematic if she doesn't want to be their friend. She had a stalker in 1st grade. I hear he ended up being expelled after we moved her from the local school (on an unrelated issue).
Bullying is a bad thing. I wish it didn't exist. However, it does and most kids will face it, sooner or later. So, yes, they need to learn how to deal with bullies. Don't mistake thinking it's good to learn how to deal with a situation with thinking the situation should be tolerated. I think it's good my kids know what to do in event of a house fire but I'm not setting the house on fire to teach them that lesson.
Ideally, kids should be taught about bullies young. Seems to me one of the benefits they found to attending day care was less bullying later because they have dealt with bullies from a younger age. Day care would be the ideal setting because there is, constant, adult supervision.
And that works to a point. The problem we ran into with my son was that it worked really well to give him the fourth grade math book in second, and the fifth grade math book for the first semester or so of third. But after that...there were no optins available to him on that campus. (There was a middle school close by, but he wasn't allowed to go over there for math, nor would the elementary school borrow books for him-- district policy.) He spent the next year pretty much repeating what he'd done already, until we pulled him out to homeschool.
Splitting campuses is an issue. My dd will split between the high school and middle school next year. She'll start out at the high school in the morning and then go to the middle school. Fortuntely, high school starts 40 minutes before middle school so there's travel time between the schools. Of course we have to arrange for transportation so she'll be taking the bus or a cab on days she doesn't want to walk. (the schools are about 3/4 of a mile apart so it is walkable but not with a heavy back pack)
And that works to a point. The problem we ran into with my son was that it worked really well to give him the fourth grade math book in second, and the fifth grade math book for the first semester or so of third. But after that...there were no optins available to him on that campus. (There was a middle school close by, but he wasn't allowed to go over there for math, nor would the elementary school borrow books for him-- district policy.) He spent the next year pretty much repeating what he'd done already, until we pulled him out to homeschool.
That is too bad! I never knew about that option in our school disctrict until my son's principal made that offer for another family. It turns out that it was not an unusual situation. The parents had to provide transportation to the middle school in the morning, the child took math, then one of the busses waiting at the middle school happened to be making a run to the elementary school. When his class worked on math, he did his own math homework. He was able to take 1st period math and get to elementary at their normal starting time. In middle school, once he completes all the available classes, he will take geometry on-line with others (I think there are about 5 in that school alone) and several teachers have volunteered and begged to be able to work with these kids in person during their planning time to fill in any gaps.
JPS's quote was in reply to someone else, but it got me thinking.
I wonder if this needs to be addressed more specifically in teacher training programs? I am currently working on my master of education and have never had a class address bully issues head on. It has been refered to several times, as in "don't let it happen". All my own professional knowledge has been because I sought out information and experts to help my own child. Maybe we need to add proof of having that knowledge to the definition of highly qualified. Make it part of a required course in non-academic issues we need to effectively deal with.
I think it would be good to deal with it in teacher training programs. It's pervasive enough that we should be trained in dealing with it. I agree with "don't let it happen" but that only works if it happens in front of a teacher and the teacher knows how to diffuse (of defuse, whichever you prefer, being a chemistry teacher, I prefer diffuse ) the situation.
As a teacher, I don't witness much bullying but I hear about it. By the time they get to high school, most bullies have learned not to let adults see them in action. All I can really do is talk to the kids who come to me about how to deal with bullies.
Of course they don't deserve it. But they will never be free of it until they learn that there is a time and place for everything. Exactly how do you expect the gifted to not be bullied? What should they do, speaking practically? They can learn when to shut up and stop painting a target on themselves, or they can learn to fight.
Being accepted and smiled at and treated like a fellow human is much better, and how other people treat me is inextricably tied with how they perceive that I am treating them.
The "target" is painted from speech in class, in responding to the teacher.
The "target" is painted because another person feels diminished or threatened by the gifted student's ability.
The "target" is painted because the bully sees a potential victim, based on the combination of difference and group think.
The "target" is painted because the teacher thinks "boys will be boys" or "if you don't know when to shut up, then you are getting what you deserve," and kids pick up on it.
The "target" is painted because the teacher permits it and encourages it, sometimes.
The "target" is painted because it can be.
Do some kids contribute to their problems? Sure.
But your proposed solution is as often the purported cause as the thing it is supposed to be the solution for. "Why aren't you using your big words with me, anymore? Huh? Talking down to me? Well, I'll show you!"
Bullies don't actually care what is really going on - only what spin they can put on it, to make the victim feel as if it is his fault. Just like most abusers do.
I think it would be good to deal with it in teacher training programs. It's pervasive enough that we should be trained in dealing with it. I agree with "don't let it happen" but that only works if it happens in front of a teacher and the teacher knows how to diffuse (of defuse, whichever you prefer, being a chemistry teacher, I prefer diffuse ) the situation.
As a teacher, I don't witness much bullying but I hear about it. By the time they get to high school, most bullies have learned not to let adults see them in action. All I can really do is talk to the kids who come to me about how to deal with bullies.
Additionally, the whole "may as well learn it now" argument is a pretty silly one. We don't teach our fourth graders to pay taxes or do BSEs, we don't give them the car keys or teach them to mix the perfect martini on the theory that "they may as well learn it now". Yet with verbal and physical abuse, as long as the person inflicting them is an age-peer (because if it's an adult, it's potentially actionable as child abuse), all bets are off?
I think you have misunderstood the context of my comment. In a perfect world there would be no bullies and I do not condone bullying, but I am realistic. This world is not perfect, and there are plenty of bullies in school. My bullying began the day they pulled me out of first grade to go to gifted and reached its peak in the fourth grade. In the fourth grade I got to experience a lovely existential agony as I seriously considered killing myself so that they couldn't hurt me anymore. So yes it helped me immensely to learn to deal with it in fourth grade, and I really wish that I had learned it sooner. I wish that someone had helped me so that it wasn't such a trial by fire. I could have saved myself a lot of pain.
It's a good thing that I learned this, because there are still bullies in my life. The last bully I had to deal closely with was actually my boss. Sometimes you do just have to deal with it, because you have no other choice. Sometimes there will be no one to help you, and so you have to learn to help yourself. Flying under the radar is a good practical tactic that works.
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) the situation. 
Sometimes you do just have to deal with it, because you have no other choice. Sometimes there will be no one to help you, and so you have to learn to help yourself. Flying under the radar is a good practical tactic that works.
