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Regardless of the disability issue I never understood why time was so important in test taking. In the "real world" world being accurate is generally more important than the time it takes to do it (within reason of course).
It seems like giving timed tests is a lot like having a wresting match and ignoring weight-divisions.
In my opinion, Stephen Hawking is the embodiment of this principle. He has unique qualities that make his disabilities relative. His employers make the accommodations necessary to getting the value of his abilities. It is naive to think that he would have the same quality of life that he has if he did not have those abilities.
I missed this earlier. Excellent point
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Regardless of the disability issue I never understood why time was so important in test taking. In the "real world" world being accurate is generally more important than the time it takes to do it (within reason of course).
It seems like giving timed tests is a lot like having a wresting match and ignoring weight-divisions.
90% of the time that I take a test in school I am the first one to finish. So since the time it takes to take a test is so important to some people I wonder if they would be in favor of this proposal. As soon as the first person finishes the test, then everyone's time is up. It's not fair that most of the time the entire class is getting more time to finish the test than it takes me. I mean, in the real world if someone else publishes a paper or gets a patent on a product before you then you don't get extra time to submit yours. What are we teaching students? It's a cold, hard, dog eat dog world out there, they might as well get used to it.
Of course I don't actually think that that is a good idea at all, but it isn't any sillier than suggesting that people with disabilities shouldn't be accommodated. EVERYONE does things at different speeds.
Some children have poor eyesight and need to wear glasses in order to be able to see properly. Should we deny these kids the right to wear glasses because it's not fair to the other kids?
That's the argument some are making in this thread.
Some children have poor eyesight and need to wear glasses in order to be able to see properly. Should we deny these kids the right to wear glasses because it's not fair to the other kids?
That's the argument some are making in this thread.
A very succinct way to get the point across. Great post
EDIT: I'm sure some people will come along and say 'that's not the same thing'. But it is the same thing.
A student who knows the information on the test, but who can't read the test, would be penalized in taking the test without the supportive equipment (the glasses). They wouldn't be able to read the test so they wouldn't be able to answer the questions.
A student with a disability that makes reading (dyslexia) or understanding (other types of learning disabilities) the test more difficult uses various techniques in order to take the test.
90% of the time that I take a test in school I am the first one to finish. So since the time it takes to take a test is so important to some people I wonder if they would be in favor of this proposal. As soon as the first person finishes the test, then everyone's time is up. It's not fair that most of the time the entire class is getting more time to finish the test than it takes me. I mean, in the real world if someone else publishes a paper or gets a patent on a product before you then you don't get extra time to submit yours. What are we teaching students? It's a cold, hard, dog eat dog world out there, they might as well get used to it.
Of course I don't actually think that that is a good idea at all, but it isn't any sillier than suggesting that people with disabilities shouldn't be accommodated. EVERYONE does things at different speeds.
You see, the problem with this is, the one who finishes first still has time left and chooses to work quickly.
The 'normal' kids have the same amount of time as does the quick one, but some cannot get it done in that amount of time so their papers are taken from them unfinished.
The so called disabled kids get EXTRA time until they are finished.
The ones who have to work the hardest are those normal kids who do not work as fast as the quickest and do not have the extra perks of sufficient time to finish.
A very succinct way to get the point across. Great post
EDIT: I'm sure some people will come along and say 'that's not the same thing'. But it is the same thing.
A student who knows the information on the test, but who can't read the test, would be penalized in taking the test without the supportive equipment (the glasses). They wouldn't be able to read the test so they wouldn't be able to answer the questions.
A student with a disability that makes reading (dyslexia) or understanding (other types of learning disabilities) the test more difficult uses various techniques in order to take the test.
That only works from your point of view. The glasses are not human intervention. The reading AND answering in the given amount of time is still up to the individual glasses wearing student.
You see, the problem with this is, the one who finishes first still has time left and chooses to work quickly.
The 'normal' kids have the same amount of time as does the quick one, but some cannot get it done in that amount of time so their papers are taken from them unfinished.
The so called disabled kids get EXTRA time until they are finished.
The ones who have to work the hardest are those normal kids who do not work as fast as the quickest and do not have the extra perks of sufficient time to finish.
No, that's not true. The amount of time given to complete an exam is totally arbitrary. It can be set to whatever length anyone agrees to.
If I have enough time to finish, then everyone else does as well. Everyone is equal and has equal abilities. There is NO reason for anyone to take longer taking a test than I do. If I do my test in 10 minutes and get A's and A+'s then I can only assume that all the other students are doing something nefarious with the extra 1 to 50+ minutes that they are taking.
That only works from your point of view. The glasses are not human intervention. The reading AND answering in the given amount of time is still up to the individual glasses wearing student.
It's only your point of view that human intervention is different than optical lensing intervention.
This IS exactly what happens. When kids get assistance in a class or on a test they DO NOT get help with the material. They get help with how to do the test or assignment. And guess what, when you can't understand the test it's going to take more time while someone helps you figure it out than it will someone without the disability who doesn't have that problem.
As people have pointed out, it's not that these kids can't learn the material, it's that they don't understand the arbitrary (and outdated, IMO) techniques used to judge if they have learned the material.
This isn't what goes on (in the majority of cases. Do I think some people take advantage of the system? Of course. Every system has someone who takes advantage of it) If you think that it is I strongly suggest that you involve yourself in some way so you can see what really goes on.
Do you think that every person learns the same? When I was in school I could learn math by sitting in the back of the class joking with my friends and seeing it done once on the black board. Because I could do that, does that mean that that should be the standard and that everyone should be able to learn math in that same way?
I think you have a very sterile view of this whole issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
Educate yourself.
As I said in my previous post, I have no doubt that some people play the system. I also have no doubt that that is a very small percentage.
I'm curious as to what your experience is with this topic?
A lot of people have misconceptions about what disabilities mean, not through any fault of their own but just through a lack of any real education or experience.
I have no misconceptions. I have worked with multi-handicapped and learning disabled kids for a lot of years, not to mention a lot of normal kids.
I see lazy parents wanting extras for lazy kids for the most part. It's just easier that way. Call a child disabled and voila, magic happens. No more guilt for mom, and no more nasty reports home from the teacher. It almost becomes a private education at taxpayers' expense.
It's just plain insane to try to convince anyone that a kid has disabilities when they are in honors classes. Any kid could be in honors classes with the right amount of help, but it's only those with labels that get it whether they need it or not.
I have no misconceptions. I have worked with multi-handicapped and learning disabled kids for a lot of years, not to mention a lot of normal kids.
Ok. So, since you have all of this experience you should be a good source to consider.
Are their kids and families that abuse the system?
Are their kids and families that benefit from the system without abusing it?
Quote:
It's just plain insane to try to convince anyone that a kid has disabilities when they are in honors classes. Any kid could be in honors classes with the right amount of help, but it's only those with labels that get it whether they need it or not.
Does Stephen Hawking have a disability?
Is it insane to think that Stephen Hawking would be able to succeed in an honors physics class?
Last edited by filihok; 05-01-2010 at 08:39 AM..
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