Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-03-2010, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Utah
293 posts, read 564,022 times
Reputation: 443

Advertisements

The fact is that the vast majority of students classified as disabled look completely normal, but have relatively significant difficulties that merit accomodations, otherwise they will be lost. The majority of the kids with whom I work also look normal, but when you test them and look at the numbers, you see that there are clear deficiences. I hear the argument a lot that we cannot accommodate for these students because it 'isnt fair to the others'. My response is that it's perfectly fair, because our disabled students do not have equal access to the curriculum due to their disabilities; it would be unfair to THEM not to provide accomodations and deny them that same opportunity to access the curriculum.

This isnt some Darwinian sociological experiment we're talking about here, this is public school. Everyone deserves a shot to succeed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-03-2010, 08:57 AM
 
1,889 posts, read 3,114,127 times
Reputation: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
It isn't right, is it.

Teens get all those accommodations in school, then go to college. Can't be too terribly 'disabled'. Some even get propped up during college. What happens when they go out into the workforce? They will have jobs to do and employers won't be holding their hands. They will be expected to tow the line all by themselves.

Parents do their children no favors by finding the least little things wrong with their kids and having them specially taught all through school. Those kids never learn how to stand on their own and make something of themselves.

Some parents do it to give their kids a boost above and beyond what everyone else gets, others do it for the check.
Exactly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 4,242,747 times
Reputation: 916
In elementary school, I was at one point put in a remedial english/reading class. I was put in low level classes in 9th grade other than history, and suddenly in 10th grade, I get glasses and suddenly I'm an straight A student..

Had they done vision testing or had my parents done their job and taken me to an eye doctor, i would have done so much better in school. I had no idea that you were supposed to be able to see the board.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 10:55 AM
 
1,889 posts, read 3,114,127 times
Reputation: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexcuses View Post
when a student is in honors classes and has an aide to help him because of an iep, i'd question the label of disabled. It happens all the time.

Funny how a huge amount of students suddenly became disabled these past few years with things that didn't even exist years ago.

In the past, parents didn't use the word disability as an excuse for junior's normal behavior and lack of interest in academics.
+1
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 01:13 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
44,371 posts, read 20,076,303 times
Reputation: 115333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
I don't understand why you have such an axe to grind with the learning disabled. If you are a student who feels the LD have an advantage over you, then by all means demand to be tested. According to you, it should be a breeze to get classified.

If you are a parent who feels your child is not being given proper accommodations, then, again, demand they be tested.

If you are a teacher who thinks the whole thing is a scam, find another field of work that won't upset you so much.

And, if you are merely a busy-body with no dog in this fight, get a life.
Wow - an excellent post, Mattie! I agree wholeheartedly with this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:42 PM
 
1,889 posts, read 3,114,127 times
Reputation: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
Some children have poor eyesight and need to wear glasses in order to be able to see properly. Should we deny these kids the right to wear glasses because it's not fair to the other kids?

That's the argument some are making in this thread.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Eyesight is:
1) Specifically measurable
2) Completely out of the control of the person in question.

To be diagnosed as "learning disabled", a kid needs to have a normal "inteligence" rating but poor school performance. Now, can ya think of reasons why school performance might be low? Is it all out of the student's control??? Hardly. There are A LOT of reasons why a kid may not learn the material and have low grades and not master grade-level material. How about not paying attention in class? Not doing homework? If a kid consistently decides not to pay attention to lessons and not put much effort into schoolwork, guess what? They aren't going to learn much of anything. Do that over the course of a couple of years of school and guess what? The kid is going to test a couple of years below grade level. Really, the combination of "average intelligence" with below-grade level performance is all that is needed to justify a SPED diagnosis. Far too many times, the kid having test scores below grade level is a product of the scenario descirbed above. That's not to say that there aren't kids with disabilities that need accomodations. But, the reality is, in many districts, SPED is littered with kids that don't belong there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:46 PM
 
1,889 posts, read 3,114,127 times
Reputation: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
While this may be true in some cases it is certainly not the norm.

I think it is also a case of lots of misconceptions about what disabilities really are.

Not directing this next part at you, NoExcuses

When people say things like people with disabilities need to learn to 'tough it out' or 'work through it' or things like that it only shows an utter misunderstanding of what disabilities are. No one would suggest that a person with a broken leg or cancer should just 'shake it off'
Again, the issue is not how we deal with people with disabilities. The issue is people who really don't have legitimate disabilities getting services they don't really need. You'd have to have experience in SPED to see what I'm speaking of. I don't think anybody is calling for the disabled to not get services they need. I'm just pointing out that there are far too many kids getting services when what they really need is a kick in the butt and to have higher expectations,.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 03:31 PM
 
1,889 posts, read 3,114,127 times
Reputation: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Working with one teen hardly makes you an expert. There is a wide spectrum of Autism ranging from the extremely severe, to Aspergers and PDD. Every one who is afflicted along the Autism spectrum is affected differently and has different needs. I have worked with Doctors, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Teachers, and Therapists for the past 18 years, I have also had contact with hundreds of developmentally handicapped children thru programs like Challenger leagues, CCC, and the STAR project. You have little knowledge of the difficulties and hardships these children go thru every day of their lives. They live in a world that is impossible for them to understand, and do the best they can. To begrudge them any help they do receive is petty and cruel.
Austism is a legitimate disability. Nobody is begrudging autistic kids getting services. There are simply too many kids with vague non-existant disabilities like "Specific Learning Disability" getting services they shouldn't be getting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 03:35 PM
 
1,889 posts, read 3,114,127 times
Reputation: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
You seem to have the mistaken impression that kids who get special help are somehow getting away with something. Are you aware that when the school makes special adaptations to accommodate a student that it is noted in their record? If they need more time for tests, then that goes in there permanent record and is taken into account for college and future placement. Kids who need special help are really not in competition academically with ones who do not. It is simply a chance for them to try to get as much education as they are capable of. No one wants to labeled below normal, it is not an advantage in life, they are usually picked on, endure mental and physical abuse from other kids and generally have a hard time fitting in. Who the hell would want that?
Kids from families that want to make excuses for under performance. Kids from families seeking SSI money from the government.

There has been such a rise is SPED enrollment on public campuses that stigma has dissipated quickly. And kids in SPED that shouldn't be there know how to socialize in ways where kids don't really pick on them. It's mostly understood that they're in those classes because they screw around a lot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 03:39 PM
 
1,889 posts, read 3,114,127 times
Reputation: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
You seem to have the mistaken impression that kids who get special help are somehow getting away with something. Are you aware that when the school makes special adaptations to accommodate a student that it is noted in their record? If they need more time for tests, then that goes in there permanent record and is taken into account for college and future placement. Kids who need special help are really not in competition academically with ones who do not. It is simply a chance for them to try to get as much education as they are capable of. No one wants to labeled below normal, it is not an advantage in life, they are usually picked on, endure mental and physical abuse from other kids and generally have a hard time fitting in. Who the hell would want that?
If you only knew! They DO get away with A LOT! Mind you, I'm speaking of inner-city, public school kids under the "mild-moderate" umbrella. I'm not talking about kids with autism etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:19 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top