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Old 03-03-2015, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,514,457 times
Reputation: 7830

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
No one is preventing anyone from being with the one they love.
I have a dog and a cat, that you would think they were an old long time married couple.


You want government to create happiness, not just let you make your own.
So a gay couple can legally get married in any state just like a heterosexual couple? Didn't know that finally happened. Regardless, you guys are on the losing end of this fight thankfully.
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Old 03-03-2015, 10:57 AM
 
Location: in the soup
3,883 posts, read 1,639,675 times
Reputation: 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The Teaparty (not teabaggers) is small in numbers compared to mainstream conservatives so what are you talking about? God, I wish you people would get over your obsession with the Teaparty! Senile racists? If there are any they are among the minority in this country and don't represent most conservatives no matter how many times the left lies about it.

No matter who the GOP puts on the ballot you lefties are going to call them Teapartiers anyway because they don't go along with the leftist idealogy. Use to be that the left just objected to the GOP's stand on the issues and vice versa. The GOP has always been opposed to abortion and gay marriage and many other issues espoused by the left so that is nothing new but all of a sudden it is a Teaparty thing? Needed a new whipping post, did ya?
Teabeggars are the core of the GOP right now. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. They uncritically believe whatever the right wing echo chamber tells them, and they turn out to vote in droves so long as they're scared enough by eeeebil gays, eeeeebil muslums, eeebil black men. They're a remarkably useful bunch of idiots, and the GOP simply can't win a presidential election without these angry, old, ignorant racists.

As long as they're around, the GOP is stuck in a catch 22. They can pander to these self-hating old poor white people... win the primary and lose the election. Or they can ignore these hateful geezers and never even GET to the election.

In my opinion, the ONLY chance the GOP has in the short-term is to lock down their primary process so that their chosen 'moderate' rich-kid-of-this-cycle can win the primary without making too big of an ass of himself. Sure the tea beggars would wail and cry right along with their talk show hosts... but on election day they'd still line up like good little peasants and vote against the eeeeebil woman (or whatever evil 'other' these geriatric freedom-fighters happen to be barking at).

It's a long shot, but it's the best they've got. Let's see of the oligarchs can put a leash on their old dog.
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Old 03-03-2015, 11:57 AM
 
40,107 posts, read 24,354,028 times
Reputation: 12619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
One cannot compare objection to inter-racial marriage between opposite sex couples to same sex couples. It is a ridiculous analogy and not the same thing at all. Not desiring a "traditional" marriage between gays but instead recognizing a civil union is not bigotry at all regardless of the stupid claims in here.
One can compare the two. People do it all the time. Just because you don't like the analogy doesn't make it ridiculous or invalid.

And even if same-sex marriage becomes legal in all fifty states, it won't affect "traditional" marriage one whit.

Every couple defines what kind of marriage they will have for themselves. Your neighbors' marriage and how they decide what their boundaries are, what their roles are, doesn't have any affect on your own marriage, and what you and your spouse have established as boundaries, what roles you have. Since the genders of the persons involved makes no difference to your marriage, your refusal to acknowledge same-sex marriage can only be the result of bigotry.

It doesn't affect you. You're not required to do anything. The legality of someone else's marriage has no bearing on the legality of your own marriage. And this "civil union" argument is moot, since those states who have outlawed same-sex marriage have also outlawed same-sex civil unions.
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Old 03-03-2015, 12:07 PM
 
40,107 posts, read 24,354,028 times
Reputation: 12619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The Teaparty (not teabaggers) is small in numbers compared to mainstream conservatives so what are you talking about? God, I wish you people would get over your obsession with the Teaparty! Senile racists? If there are any they are among the minority in this country and don't represent most conservatives no matter how many times the left lies about it.

No matter who the GOP puts on the ballot you lefties are going to call them Teapartiers anyway because they don't go along with the leftist idealogy. Use to be that the left just objected to the GOP's stand on the issues and vice versa. The GOP has always been opposed to abortion and gay marriage and many other issues espoused by the left so that is nothing new but all of a sudden it is a Teaparty thing? Needed a new whipping post, did ya?
First, this THREAD is about the Tea Party. There's no obsession involved here. People are discussing the topic of the THREAD. Please refer to the title of the thread. If this thread were about apples, and people were discussing apples, someone commenting on people's obsession with apples would be about that someone's personal agenda. Because the topic is about apples.

The GOP's positions regarding abortion, gay marriage, immigration, are not set in stone. The GOP's positions change as the electorate's opinions on issues change. Because that's how it works. People in this country change their minds about issues. And the people who get elected reflect those changes. Sometimes the people who get elected actually change their minds while they are in office.

And it does matter who the GOP puts on the ballot. For the most part, the candidates themselves assert whether or not they are affiliated with the Tea Party. Sometimes people who say they are part of the Tea Party rally around a particular candidate, and assert that the Tea Party supports this particular candidate because of his positions. It's rarely the case that people on the left are slapping the Tea Party label on individuals.

So it's not about a whipping post. It's about a particular ideology that is loathe to compromise. That ideology may have many valid points to make, but when they put themselves in a system of government that is built on the idea of balance and negotiation and compromise, and they refuse to work within that system, they become problematic. Our system works because people can compromise. Our system fails when people refuse to compromise.
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Old 03-03-2015, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,312 posts, read 15,772,260 times
Reputation: 9864
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
First, this THREAD is about the Tea Party. There's no obsession involved here. People are discussing the topic of the THREAD. Please refer to the title of the thread. If this thread were about apples, and people were discussing apples, someone commenting on people's obsession with apples would be about that someone's personal agenda. Because the topic is about apples.

The GOP's positions regarding abortion, gay marriage, immigration, are not set in stone. The GOP's positions change as the electorate's opinions on issues change. Because that's how it works. People in this country change their minds about issues. And the people who get elected reflect those changes. Sometimes the people who get elected actually change their minds while they are in office.

And it does matter who the GOP puts on the ballot. For the most part, the candidates themselves assert whether or not they are affiliated with the Tea Party. Sometimes people who say they are part of the Tea Party rally around a particular candidate, and assert that the Tea Party supports this particular candidate because of his positions. It's rarely the case that people on the left are slapping the Tea Party label on individuals.

So it's not about a whipping post. It's about a particular ideology that is loathe to compromise. That ideology may have many valid points to make, but when they put themselves in a system of government that is built on the idea of balance and negotiation and compromise, and they refuse to work within that system, they become problematic. Our system works because people can compromise. Our system fails when people refuse to compromise.
This, less obstruction and blowhards, more doing things and getting this nation on the right course. We've been going backwards since 2000 (regardless if Gore or Kerry would have beat Bush) and we have only punted time after the time because the Tea Party wont negotiate. Boehner had to try to pander to the moderates and Blue-Dog dems to just get 203 Yeh votes.
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:06 PM
 
36,787 posts, read 16,356,564 times
Reputation: 9900
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Yeah. I don't trust those that say well we want people to be happy, the fact is if you are anti-gay marriage and pro-civil unions, you are supporting the bigoted and illegal idea of separate but equal because the gay couples who have to get civil unions aren't given the same protections under the law that a straight couple who can marry do.
Those views however are not based on bigotry especially when one is ok with a civil union. That's just merely demonizing people for their convictions. I am not bigoted towards gays. I have two very special friends and a cousin that is gay. I like them very much personally. So I suggest you stop stereotyping others with words like bigotry that are not the case.

I repeat again, go after the states that don't offer the same protections under a civil union and get that changed. Don't insist that we as a nation embrace a "traditional" marriage for gays. Lefties keep talking about the right being uncompromising well here is an example of compromising by a conservative.
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,312 posts, read 15,772,260 times
Reputation: 9864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Those views however are not based on bigotry especially when one is ok with a civil union. That's just merely demonizing people for their convictions. I am not bigoted towards gays. I have two very special friends and a cousin that is gay. I like them very much personally. So I suggest you stop stereotyping others with words like bigotry that are not the case.

I repeat again, go after the states that don't offer the same protections under a civil union and get that changed. Don't insist that we as a nation embrace a "traditional" marriage for gays. Lefties keep talking about the right being uncompromising well here is an example of compromising by a conservative.
I can only do that for Arizona (they won't hear it.) Prop 102 passed in 2008 banning gay marriage and even though it was over-turned by a district judge, it's still getting appealed in the Ninth Circuit. There will likely be a national mandate thanks to the Supreme Court granting equal protection (and NOT "separate-but-equal") from another similar law, before the local decision is finalized and set in stone.

That and with how conservative Arizona is in particularly in the legislature, ain't gonna happen.
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:19 PM
 
36,787 posts, read 16,356,564 times
Reputation: 9900
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
First, this THREAD is about the Tea Party. There's no obsession involved here. People are discussing the topic of the THREAD. Please refer to the title of the thread. If this thread were about apples, and people were discussing apples, someone commenting on people's obsession with apples would be about that someone's personal agenda. Because the topic is about apples.

The GOP's positions regarding abortion, gay marriage, immigration, are not set in stone. The GOP's positions change as the electorate's opinions on issues change. Because that's how it works. People in this country change their minds about issues. And the people who get elected reflect those changes. Sometimes the people who get elected actually change their minds while they are in office.

And it does matter who the GOP puts on the ballot. For the most part, the candidates themselves assert whether or not they are affiliated with the Tea Party. Sometimes people who say they are part of the Tea Party rally around a particular candidate, and assert that the Tea Party supports this particular candidate because of his positions. It's rarely the case that people on the left are slapping the Tea Party label on individuals.

So it's not about a whipping post. It's about a particular ideology that is loathe to compromise. That ideology may have many valid points to make, but when they put themselves in a system of government that is built on the idea of balance and negotiation and compromise, and they refuse to work within that system, they become problematic. Our system works because people can compromise. Our system fails when people refuse to compromise.
The fact is though that in every political topic the left is foaming at the mouth over the Teaparty and you know it. Yes, the left IS obsessed with them!

I don't know what your point is in your second paragraph. Most GOPers do not favor the things you mentioned and never will. As for changing one's mind the Democrats do that also. It's ok to do that but when there are moral issues involved or the new view isn't in the best interests of our citizens/country that's a whole different ball of wax. Especially when it is only based on getting more votes. Talk about selling your soul to the devil!

The Teaparty is no different than that leftist group doing sit-ins all over the country chastising the corporations. Yet we don't claim that the Democrats are a part of that group and keep hounding them that they are card carrying members of it. Many GOPers just happen to share some of the same values as the Teaparty. I seriously doubt that most are card carrying members or are being influenced by them. They already had those views to begin with.

How many times do I have to state that compromising on the well being of our citizens is not the sane thing to do just for the sake of compromise?
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:21 PM
 
36,787 posts, read 16,356,564 times
Reputation: 9900
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I can only do that for Arizona (they won't hear it.) Prop 102 passed in 2008 banning gay marriage and even though it was over-turned by a district judge, it's still getting appealed in the Ninth Circuit. There will likely be a national mandate thanks to the Supreme Court granting equal protection (and NOT "separate-but-equal") from another similar law, before the local decision is finalized and set in stone.

That and with how conservative Arizona is in particularly in the legislature, ain't gonna happen.
Well dream on. I seriously doubt that if this is taken to the Supreme Court that they will rule in your favor.
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Old 03-03-2015, 03:32 PM
 
36,787 posts, read 16,356,564 times
Reputation: 9900
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Teabeggars are the core of the GOP right now. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. They uncritically believe whatever the right wing echo chamber tells them, and they turn out to vote in droves so long as they're scared enough by eeeebil gays, eeeeebil muslums, eeebil black men. They're a remarkably useful bunch of idiots, and the GOP simply can't win a presidential election without these angry, old, ignorant racists.

As long as they're around, the GOP is stuck in a catch 22. They can pander to these self-hating old poor white people... win the primary and lose the election. Or they can ignore these hateful geezers and never even GET to the election.

In my opinion, the ONLY chance the GOP has in the short-term is to lock down their primary process so that their chosen 'moderate' rich-kid-of-this-cycle can win the primary without making too big of an ass of himself. Sure the tea beggars would wail and cry right along with their talk show hosts... but on election day they'd still line up like good little peasants and vote against the eeeeebil woman (or whatever evil 'other' these geriatric freedom-fighters happen to be barking at).

It's a long shot, but it's the best they've got. Let's see of the oligarchs can put a leash on their old dog.
No, they are not! The GOP had those same views way before the Teaparty was formed. And please be civil. They are not baggers they are Teapatiers. Baggers is a derogatory word used to describe homosexual activity. I don't know any conservative that calls gays, blacks or women "evil. Muslims are only evil if they prescribe to terrorism and other radical ideals. Angry, old hateful racists do not comprise the majority of the GOP either. It's just lies spread by your side because you feel threatened with your ignorant views.

Oh, so now you're a racist also with your remarks about white people? What a hypocrite you are! You are essentially calling conservatives racists while you make racist remarks yourself?????? Your own hate comes shining thru in your post. Yes, hypocricy at its finest. I don't debate with uncivil people like you who spread lies and propaganda and can't debate without name calling. It's just plain childish and I don't debate with children. We are supposed to behave like adults in here. I can certainly see why you picked the forum name you use. It fits you. Welcome to my ignore list.
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