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Old 01-14-2016, 07:49 AM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,419,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Yes, because it's TRUE.
You keep telling yourself that, Miss Informed...

The rest of us understand.....

Quote:
Feel free to cite any US law in effect at the time of Cruz's birth (or even now) stating that those born abroad to US citizen parents are "natural born citizens."

I'll wait...
Feel free to cite any US law in effect at the time of Hillary Clinton's birth or Donald Trumps birth or Bernie Sanders birth or Ben Carson's birth or Rand Paul's birth that defines "natural born citizen".

Otherwise, by your special interpretation, no one alive is a natural born citizen of the United States - no one alive is eligible to be elected President of the United States.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:49 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Miss Informed, this is simply a red herring.
No, it is not. A requirement for US citizenship by virtue of birth in the US requires one to be subject to US jurisdiction. Those born in the US to foreign citizen parents whose countries have legislated citizenship by descent to children born out of their countries are subject to the foreign countries' citizenship jurisdictions.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,758,293 times
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Can't we stop beating this dead horse? Or if some people still insist, can't we all beat it in one spot?

Thoughts on Cruz's citizenship?
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:53 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
You keep telling yourself that, Miss Informed...
I'm not telling myself that. Our Federal Government is telling us that.

The 1790 Naturalization Act was REPEALED and "natural born" REMOVED in 1795, never to be seen again to this day.

A 2004 attempt (S. 2128) to reinstate "natural born" FAILED.

Cruz is ineligible.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:54 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Can't we stop beating this dead horse? Or if some people still insist, can't we all beat it in one spot?
If you're not interested in upholding the Constitution including our Bill of Rights, just scroll on by...
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:55 AM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,419,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No, it is not. A requirement for US citizenship by virtue of birth in the US requires one to be subject to US jurisdiction. Those born in the US to foreign citizen parents whose countries have legislated citizenship by descent to children born out of their countries are subject to the foreign countries' citizenship jurisdictions.
Really, Miss Informed....your short term memory is become a concern....

Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1952, Title III - Nationality and Naturalization, Chapter 1 - Nationality at Birth and by Collective Naturalization, Section 301(a) (Link to PDF):

Quote:
Section 301(a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
...
(7) A person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years; Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces by such citizen parent may be included in computing the physical presence requirements of this paragraph.
That's the current federal law defining United States citizenship. No mention of the person in question being 'subject to foreign citizenship'.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:56 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,889,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I'm not telling myself that. Our Federal Government is telling us that.

The 1790 Naturalization Act was REPEALED and "natural born" REMOVED in 1795, never to be seen again to this day.

A 2004 attempt (S. 2128) to reinstate "natural born" FAILED.

Cruz is ineligible.
And still, the 1790 Naturalization Act existed, it was actually written by Founding Fathers, and it made the foreign-born children of American fathers NATURAL-BORN citizens. Which renders arguments that the Founding Fathers were worried about foreign-born children having divided loyalties moot. The Founding Fathers could not have been worried about such a thing, or they would never have written the act. And it completely negates the argument that the Founding Fathers intended NATURAL-BORN to ONLY mean born on American soil. Clearly they defined NATURAL-BORN more broadly.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:57 AM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,419,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Cruz is ineligible.
Then by your logic, no one alive today is eligible.

Duck, dodge, dive and duck, Miss Informed.
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:59 AM
 
13,694 posts, read 9,014,113 times
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I guess I have no trouble believing that Rafael Edward Cruz (born in Canada), is eligible to be President based on the nationality of his mother. After all, there has never been a question, so far as I know, of the citizenship of a child born to a mother who happens to be travelling overseas (which does occur rather frequently).


Now, the mother of Rafael Edward Cruz (born in Canada) was living and working in Canada when she gave birth to Rafael Edward Cruz (born in Canada). Yet, unless there is firm evidence showing why she should be treated any differently from those American women who give birth while travelling out-of-country, then I will give Rafael Edward Cruz (born in Canada) the benefit of any doubt. If a child born in, say France, while the mother was in France for a month vacationing, can be deemed a natural born citizen, then I see no reason to not extend the same legal status to Mrs. Cruz and her child.


I admit, I am having fun, anytime I see my brother-in-law (who works as a bundler for the Senator) to refer to his candidate as "Rafael Edward Cruz, born in Canada", since he was previously convinced that Barack Hussein Obama, born in Hawaii, was not eligible to be President. He has modified his stance a little, although at Christmas he still expressed some doubts on the eligibility of Mr. Obama (claiming that his mother would have had to live in the US of A for 14 years after she attained age of 14, incorrectly citing an old statute).


I will note that the Marchioness Trump (as an official candidate for president) does have 'standing' to file suit against Rafael Edward Cruz, born in Canada, if he (Trump) wishes to have a court make a decision about his (Cruz, of Canada)'s standing clarified.
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Old 01-14-2016, 08:02 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,059 posts, read 44,853,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Feel free to cite any US law in effect at the time of Hillary Clinton's birth or Donald Trumps birth or Bernie Sanders birth or Ben Carson's birth or Rand Paul's birth that defines "natural born citizen".
If you want to know the meaning of "natural born citizen" when it was drafted into the adopted Constitution, you have to follow the historical timeline and examine the historical documents related to such...

The Constitution's Presidential eligibility clause as originally presented by Alexander Hamilton in June 1787:

"No person shall be eligible to the office of President of the United States unless he be now a Citizen of one of the States, or hereafter be born a Citizen of the United States."

A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875


The eligibility clause as adopted in September 1787, and as it exists to this day in the Constitution:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President"

Note the difference: 'born a citizen' does not equal 'natural born Citizen.'

The term was specifically changed after John Jay's July 1787 letter to George Washington to block any chance of future Presidents owing allegiance to other foreign nations or having foreign claims on their allegiance and service since birth from becoming President and Commander in Chief of the Military.

https://dlc.library.columbia.edu/jay/ldpd:68356

The meaning and intent of "natural born citizen" in the Constitution's Presidential eligibility requirement is that NO ONE born a foreign citizen/subject (and that includes those born dual citizens because they are born a foreign citizen/subject) is eligible for the office of POTUS and the US Commander in Chief.

That's the very straightforward, historically factual, and fully documented truth.
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