Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-14-2016, 09:46 AM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,419,986 times
Reputation: 8768

Advertisements

Sigh...

Your link is from page 629 of the document. My link provided is from page 619 of the same document, where the author explicitly states that your cited text was written by Hamilton as the Constitutional Convention was closing and was only noteworthy because it showed the personal view of Hamilton.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-14-2016, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,026,245 times
Reputation: 62204
"Should Cruz become the Republican nominee, Grayson has promised to challenge Cruz's candidacy -- and Grayson believes Cruz hasn't exactly been honest with voters when he tells them the law is "simple and straightforward." "All that Cruz has done is wave his hands in the air and claimed that it's settled law when it's not," Grayson told The Huffington Post on Friday. Grayson -- who, like Cruz, is a Harvard Law graduate -- said he would sue election officials if they certified Cruz's eligibility, and he thinks it's a legitimate question whether Cruz is a natural born citizen."

Democratic Congressman Vows Legal Challenge On Ted Cruz And The 'Natural Born Citizen' Question

Could Congress have cleared this up years ago/decades ago simply by writing a law that defines natural born citizen better? After McCain lost should he have gone back to the Senate and written that bill?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 09:54 AM
 
26,584 posts, read 14,454,648 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
I will note that the Marchioness Trump (as an official candidate for president) does have 'standing' to file suit against Rafael Edward Cruz, born in Canada, if he (Trump) wishes to have a court make a decision about his (Cruz, of Canada)'s standing clarified.
yep.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 09:56 AM
 
26,584 posts, read 14,454,648 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Could Congress have cleared this up years ago/decades ago simply by writing a law that defines natural born citizen better?
not positive but pretty sure that would have required a constitutional amendment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 09:57 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,049 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Sigh...

Your link is from page 629 of the document. My link provided is from page 619 of the same document, where the author explicitly states that your cited text was written by Hamilton as the Constitutional Convention was closing and was only noteworthy because it showed the personal view of Hamilton.
Sigh...

The only version submitted for adoption to the Constitutional Convention came out of the Committee of Eleven. It was "natural born citizen." Hamilton's "born a citizen" draft suggestion was rejected. There were also several other suggestions made by Hamilton on various other topics which didn't make it out of Committee, weren't submitted to the Convention, and subsequently also weren't adopted.

"Born a citizen" does not equal "natural born citizen."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 10:02 AM
 
26,584 posts, read 14,454,648 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
Guys, it doesn't matter anymore.
i'd like to see the SCOTUS and/or congress resolve this beyond any specifics of cruz/obama.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 10:03 AM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,419,986 times
Reputation: 8768
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Sigh...

The only version submitted for adoption to the Constitutional Convention came out of the Committee of Eleven. It was "natural born citizen." Hamilton's "born a citizen" draft suggestion was rejected.
Hamilton's "draft suggestion" was never submitted to the Committee of Eleven. In your own cited documentation, it clearly states that it was sent to J.M. (James Madison) at the close of deliberation - well after the Committee of Eleven already submitted its own first draft.

Quote:
There were also several other suggestions made by Hamilton on various other topics which didn't make it out of Committee, weren't submitted to the Convention, and subsequently also weren't adopted.

"Born a citizen" does not equal "natural born citizen."
Here's an image George Washington's personal copy of the first draft of the Constitution, submitted to the Convention on August 6 by the Committee of Eleven, which created the first draft (Link). Please note that the document is covered with Washington's own hand-written comments.

From the text (Article X, Section 1):

Quote:
The Executive Power of the United States shall be vested in a single person. His stile shall be, "The President of the United States of America;" and his title shall be, "His Excellency." He shall be elected by ballot by the Legislature. He shall hold his office during the term of seven years; but shall not be elected a second time.
Note - no citizenship requirement for the office. The John Jay letter didn't change 'born a citizen' to 'natural born citizen'.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 10:08 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,049 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrecking ball View Post
i'd like to see the SCOTUS and/or congress resolve this beyond any specifics of cruz/obama.
As would I.

There was a chance to resolve McCain's and Cruz's issue in 2004 with S. 2128, but it never made it out of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Why would it not go forward if everyone was so sure that foreign-born children born to US citizen parents were NBCs for Constitutional purposes?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 10:15 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,049 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Hamilton's "draft suggestion" was never submitted to the Committee of Eleven.
Based on what? The records only indicate it wasn't submitted to the Convention for adoption. We already know that. The Committee of Eleven changed the requirement from "born a citizen" to "natural born citizen" before submitting it to the Convention for adoption.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-14-2016, 10:16 AM
 
26,584 posts, read 14,454,648 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
As would I.
i think i asked you this question before ( and apologies for forgetting if i did ) but would you accept the verdict if the SCOTUS rules that NBC = citizen at birth?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:34 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top